Date: 2009/5/5
Subject: [MilitaryVeterans] Brig Gulia Mail on IESM Advisory
To:
Hi
There is a mail circulated by Brig Gulia to a number of Veterans,Here is my response to him.Rather lengthy but could not help it.
Brig Gulias mail is attached at the end of my response.
Brgds
R W Pathak
*************************************************
Dear Brig Gulia
My comments are as follows on your mail to Vijay Veer (Sorry rank not known) and others.
My comments on the mail are as follows:-
1. At the outset let me state that people staying in Glass houses should not throw stones at others. The track record of your organisation speaks for itself. There has never been a whimper from his organisation ever over the last 60 odd years when the armed forces have been let down on a regular basis. What effort has it made in educating the Politicos who wanted the armed forces of India to be disbanded as a redundant force? Thanks to Pakistan we still have some use in our country.
2. IESM was founded on sole agenda to promote OROP hence the advisory has not found favour with millions who has joined IESM “only to pursue the core issue”.
How ignorant can you be? Please visit the site www.iesm.org and educate yourself before making any comment of this nature. OROP was top priority but certainly not the only issue to be taken up by IESM.I hope you don’t continue to mislead people by your half baked knowledge and/or intentional misrepresentation
3. Next, the advisory.
Who wants to hear any comment from anyone on that? It is just an advisory want to take it go ahead otherwise ignore it the choice is yours. I have not seen any kind of FATWA in any of the advisories so far. But certainly you have issued a Fatwa to all your subordinate units to ensure that their members do not join IESM. Dear Sir who is issuing Fatwa’s? You or IESM? There is no democracy in IESL otherwise you would not have issued any instructions to prevent migration to IESM. Those instructions are an indicator of your fear of IESM.
4. PBOR pensioners have never asked for voting advisory ever in the past.
Is that really true or is it that IESL which now appears to be a Congress stooge never heard their voice or reach out to them or did not want to hear it. Probably all these otherwise many of IESL members would not have joined the IESM. The reason perhaps is that IESL has actually been politicised.
5. Real difficulties/ problems faced by PBOR pensioners and Family Pensioners, dispersed in remote villages with no connectivity/ access with the PSAs and PDAs are not being looked at by IESM.
Dear sir, what has IESL done for the last so many years? Don’t expect miracles from a new born organisation, when the ‘buddhi’ organisation has not been able to deliver on these counts.
5. Some IESM members have passed the voting advisory (hopefully only inadvertently) to serving officers
Thanks for blaming this on officers and not the IESM. In any case what is the big deal? The advisory was in the news and I am sure most serving officers and men do read the papers. This is a non issue and you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. This is purely to create a divide amongst the ESM
6. Some in the print media have quite appropriately termed this voting advisory as “Fatwa”.
I hope you don’t take everything that the Media says seriously. A lot is planted by friends of the Government. I believe one must learn to read between the lines.
7. IESM has levelled caustic comments/ remarks on the Service Chiefs for not being forceful enough or eloquent to support the cause of OPOP, thus denying them the credit for numerous improvements they have successfully obtained over the Sixth CPC recommendations.
Nobody has denied them the credit where it is due and all appreciate what they have done specially the Naval Chief. In any case a lot of what is due is still to come in black and white. For instance, PB4 for pensioners. But where they have been soft one must say so and this soft attitude has been there not today but for a long time. The blame therefore is not only on the present chiefs but all before them. Most of us are all praise for the current chiefs. I hope you will concede that IESM has taken no credit for what we have got so far.
8. When Services Chiefs were accused of defying the Govt. orders on implementation of Sixth CPC award, IESM deliberately chose to remain non-committal, as they were still hobnobbing politically. Pouncing upon the opportunity at that time, some of the very senior Bureaucrats
and Diplomats had even levelled the charge of treason, yet it did not perturb IESM.
The entire ESM community was taken aback by the virulence of the attack by the Indian Express and Aundhati Ghose. I am sure you also must have been stunned. But I don’t remember hearing a loud noise from your headquarters. So one presumes that you did agree with what was being said. Please correct me if I am wrong in interpreting your silence.
9. Since the Independence no political outfit has had the will or the courage to take independent decisions in support of the Defence Services of the country (lone exception being the 1971 war). It is the final view of the Bureaucracy which has always prevailed upon the political leadership and its decision making.
Yes Brig. Gulia, you are absolutely correct in your observation. And that is one reason why IESM aims to create a pressure group which will get us a say in decision making on security matters. It is going to be tough fighting prejudices of last 60 years and dealing with some of the craftiest brains ranged against faujis, but it has to be done for the sake of nation. And for that purpose we have to unite keeping our minor differences aside.
.
10.Out of the numerous recommendation made by a host of Committees set up post – Kargil on reforming the national security apparatus, only perfunctory recommendations were approved, Major and substantive reports still remain show – piece in the archives. In this context a promise to settle 39 years old demand of OPOP within 100 days of coming to power by a political party, could well remain a pipe dream.
I agree with you but at least they have made a promise and let them prove they are not capable of keeping one. I for one would rather be with one who makes a concrete promise irrespective of whether he will keep it or not than with someone who has always made wishy washy promises and then categorically stated that the demands are not feasible.
11. But!! If failed, IESM would make all efforts to pull their pants down of the party. With what means and mechanism perhaps, only the core committee of IESM knows.
Could we avoid terms like pulling pants down. I know we faujis like this term because it means what it say. But no that we are in public forum; we need to change a bit. I hope you appreciate it.
Thank you for admitting that the core group members know what to do .At least they know it.
I doubt if you know what to do if the government sits on the court orders which you hope to get in your favour.
12.Election manifestoes are not worth the paper they are written on. IESM should have known it better, if they are accusing the present Govt. for not honouring the promises made in their manifesto of 2004.
If the BJP manifesto is so categorical I see no reason to give them a chance to prove they are no better than the present government. Please note IESM is not accusing the present government of anything. It is only stating a fact which the government itself has made public. So why are you holding a brief for them?
13. IESM hopefully is aware that an advisory of this nature would brand them as a tool of one party or another.
If the party actually delivers then no harm at least they can take the credit for achieving something that others could not. I think you need to see the reality than to live in a fool’s paradise that courts are the final medicine for all ills of this country.
14. Finally I have a few questions that you may like to answer.
1. If OROP comes through would all those who have opposed the IESM volunteer to donate the first increase to IESM for having achieved what your IESL could not in 39 years.
2. What happened to the virtual agreement of OROP in 1995? Why did it fail to g through and who signed the deal for one time rise?
3. What role has the IESL played over the years in improving the lot of ESM? Please list all the achievements like taking the PDA’s to the ESM home, making canteen facilities easily available, ensuring that the Maharashtra government did not take VAT and well as excise from ESM, improving the resettlement and ensured employability of ESM after retirement, ensuring that the status of the Armed forces is not lowered systematically, shifting from Rank based pension to the present system thus causing immense problems to ESM, Para military forces using Army or similar uniforms which is not permitted under IPC, downgrading of the status of parity with Civil service, ensuring that ESM get free medical for life as promised by making them pay for ECHS membership and government quietly calling this promise a welfare measure, government sitting over anomalies’ of past PC despite court orders, case of Maj Generals court orders not being implemented, ECHS refund for pre 1996 retirees not being made, police forces wearing badges of rank similar to Army officers. The list of your achievements is endless. Kindly add a few that i may have missed out.
14. The list of your achievements in not taking up any of these issues is impressive. Please sort out your house before you throw accusations at others and appear as Bhade ka Tattu of the government
You have been calling the organisers of the IES movement by derogatory names like NETAs. I request you to desist from such remarks and once again appeal to all ESM to come together to achieve our common goal of betterment of all ESM particularly PBOR. The Babus and Neta’s have learnt their lesson well from the British DIVIDE and RULE. Can we learn our lesson from history to ensure we are not allowed to be divided?
As I finish this piece news just came in of PM’s announcement. I hope you would agree that this is only recognition of the power of ESM. Just imagine what this power could be if we all ESM Organisations were United. So please let us stop snapping at each other and unite to gain the most. This is our opportunity after 60 years to make our voice heard in the betterment of ESM and the National security. But let this be a single voice and not a cacophony of the fish market.
Cdr R W Pathak(Retd)
From: kamala mohan
Subject: Re: Fwd: COMMENTS ON VOTING ADVISORY BY IESM
To: "Vijay Veer"
Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 11:03 PM
Thanks for refering to me. My comments are as under:
1. The main issue will not be relegated to IESM & ESM or any other org. Yes , IESM can be faulted on several counts of impropriety based on the old Army ethos. That at best will be a poor consolation for Gulia & his org who have not kept with time & technology.
2. OROP can easily outbeat all issues combined. There Gulia has no defence.
3.As for voying advisory is concerned , as the term suggests it is only advice and therefore not binding. Hence Gulia is creating a non existent issue of term " Fatwah" which the interpretation is dangerous to say the least. None can monitor of actual voting and hence no consequences.
4. As for caustic comments on chiefs or serving govt. servants incl political , why IESM is worried. Can't thos guys take action at their end. Here PM is called " Hijarah" and Pm /govt (congress ruled state govt) has not taken any action. So Gulia is out of touch with realities. infact such good & proper behavior has only landed our Armed forces in such a pitiable state. discipline is important but suffering ignominy is not discipline. we have suffered only ignominy at the hand of politicians/ bureaucrats/ police & now even para military forces. Only civilians on the street left. Gulia can wake up before that atleast.
5. State of POBR is pitiable. They have only army benefits on paper!! We officers serving & veterans are responsible for it. That includes me.
6. What Gulia's ESM has done is too little & always too late.
Lastly , I'm afraid Gulia is most of the time 'off tangent' from main issues & takes umbrage of IESM aberrations. He should desist from talking about IESM & focus on his activities & achievements of his org. That will help not only him but also all concerned.
Much more can be said in another forum.
Bye.
regards,
Mohan Iyer
From: hesl_rksgulia .
Date: May 2, 2009 12:04 PM
Subject: COMMENTS ON VOTING ADVISORY BY IESM
To: Singh VV
Dear Vijay
IESM is issuing daily advisory, as SOS calls lately rude in tone,
calling names and attaching motives to those averse to voting BJP. My
comments on the advisory are as follows:-
COMMENTS ON VOTING ADVISORY BY IESM
• IESM was founded on sole agenda to promote OROP hence the advisory
has not found favour with millions who has joined IESM “only to pursue
the core issue”.
• PBOR pensioners have never asked for voting advisory ever in the
past. This time they seem to have been led up the garden path through
emotional blackmail.
• Real difficulties/ problems faced by PBOR pensioners and Family
Pensioners, dispersed in remote villages with no connectivity/ access
with the PSAs and PDAs are not being looked at by IESM, for lack of
wherewithal within the outfit.
• Some IESM members have passed the voting advisory ( hopefully only
inadvertently) even to some serving officers, a measure unconceivable/
unthinkable in the past.
• Some in the print media have quite appropriately termed this voting
advisory as “Fatwa”. It has the potential of a derogatory impact on
honour of Defence Services and in particular the serving officers.
• IESM has leveled caustic comments/ remarks on the Service Chiefs for
not being forceful enough or eloquent to support the cause of OPOP,
thus denying them the credit for numerous improvements they have
successfully obtained over the Sixth CPC recommendations.
• When Services Chiefs were accused of defying the Govt. orders on
implementation of Sixth CPC award, IESM deliberately chose to remain
non-committal, as they were still hobnobbing politically. Pouncing
upon the opportunity at that time, some of the very senior Bureaucrats
and Diplomats had even leaveled the charge of treason, yet it did not
perturb IESM.
• Since the Independence no political outfit has had the will or the
courage to take independent decisions in support of the Defence
Services of the country (lone exception being the 1971 war). It is the
final view of the Bureaucracy which has always prevailed upon the
political leadership and its decision making.
• Out of the numerous recommendation made by a host of Committees set
up post – Krgil on reforming the national security apparatus, only
perfunctory recommendations were approved, Major and substantive
reports still remain show – piece in the archives. In this context a
promise to settle 39 years old demand of OPOP within 100 days of
coming to power by a political party, could well remain a pipe dream.
But !! If failed, IESM would make all efforts to pull their pants down
of the party. With what means and mechanism perhaps, only the core
committee of IESM knows.
• Election manifestoes are not worth the paper they are written on.
IESM should have known it batter, if they are accusing the present
Govt. for not honourig the promises made in their manifesto of 2004.
• IESM hopefully is aware that an advisory of this nature would brand
them as a tool of one party or another.
• Such a voting advisory can at best be termed as hasty/
ill-conceived/ impudent.
• Your comments please ?
With regards
RKS Gulia
Ravindra Waman Pathak(Mobile 919822329340)
and
Warsha R Pathak(Mobile 919822329340)
1 Surashri
