Views from UK of Veteran RS Rajput

From: RSingh305@aol. com RSingh305@aol. com
Subject: IMG_1182.JPG
To: kamboj_cs@yahoo. co.in
Date: Monday, 17 August, 2009, 6:31 PM
Sir,
I bought a copy of "The Daily Telegraph", London, for the sole reason that on its FRONT PAGE the editor has given FULL PAGE coverage to the British soldiers killed in battle in Afghanistan (attachment) .

Television, all the channels, BBC and others, are giving daily coverage to war there. The bodies of those killed are brought to this country by air and then PARADED through towns with full military honours with members of public lining the streets on both sides.

It is a proof of the VALUE placed on soldiers by people and government of this country. Naturally there are voices against the war in Afghanistan but the support and loyalty of the overwhelming majority carries the day.

The news today also tells us of increase in the number of young volunteers to join the army. Rising unemployment may be one reason but their Will & Spirit to Fight cannot be underestimated.

We NRI's see COLLECTIVE response, supported by media, to external and internal threats to this country.

Regards
RS Rajput
(UK)
17 August 2009.

Mail from cdr Pathak ...Pune

From: Ravindra Pathak raviwarsha@gmail.com
Subject: IESM Membership
To: satbirsm@yahoo.com
Cc: "Brig C S Kamboj" kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in, TRUNCATED
Date: Tuesday, 18 August, 2009, 11:44 AM
Dear Sir

Today i have registered the following online
1. Surve Dilip Babu Nb Sb
The HDFC receipt is enclosed.

The forms will follow in due course.

Brgds

R W Pathak

Cdr Ravindra Waman Pathak I.N.(Retd)(Mobile 919822329340)
and
Warsha R Pathak(Mobile 919822329340

RBI Intervention by Cdr Pathak , Pune

Dear Sir

Kindly refer to mail on the subject sent earlier.I am resending the mail with the attachment on F A Q on Pension payment by banks.

Before we take up anything with RBI let us try and find out from our banks what are their problems and we may be able to get a better picture to plan our future course with RBI Intervention.

Today I have had a good interaction with the person handling pensions in my branch and i expect to get answers from him in a couple of days about their problems and his suggested solutions.

Brgds

R W Pathak


Cdr Ravindra Waman Pathak I.N.(Retd)(Mobile 919822329340

Views by Col CJS Khera

Subject: Re: MINUTES STEERING COMMITTE MEETING


Date: Friday, 14 August, 2009, 8:45 AM

Sir,

1. Thanks for the informatory email. This is the only way we can come on one platform, if only there is no communication gap.
2. There need more to be done on ground ,as 80% of ESM does not have any source to get informed as to what is being planned by IESM except officers/Jcos with email accounts. I suggest the following-


(a) the Local ESM of area must spread info in English or in local language at the CSD counters, Sainik welfare Centres, ECHS centres , State treasury, Pension paying banks so that more mind join us and participate. This sort of marketing need to be done to ensure maximum voice errupt from ESMcommunity

(b) All ESM org must have ESM Data bank with detailed particulars and contact numbers.

(c) I am in possession such data bank of Distt Roopngar including Chd,Mohali,Morinds,Kharar,Panchkula. This needs to be now updated by writing letter to each ESM.

3. I appreciate you advice to the Higher HQ of IESM and also praise for circulating the miutes of meeting held at Delhi.

Regards
Col CJS khera
9855115050
------------
From: Ravindran Major
Subject: Re: EMAILS FROM MEMBERS - SET 2 - EMAIL 598/2009 - 13 AUG 09 - (R to S)
To: ""REPORT MY SIGNAL" (CS Kamboj)" kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Date: Friday, 14 August, 2009, 8:58 AM
I have sent the folowing comment:

Rudroneel Ghosh (article in Pioneer on 13 aug) and Dr NarendraKumar exhibit total ignorance of the power of truth.
Admiral Mehta has just made a satement of fact as any soldier/citizen who loves his motherland would recognise. We have a long way from the days of SunTsu and though some of the principles he had enunciated may hold good even today, it is simply not possible today to put on a false facade that could deceive a potential enemy to any worthwhile extent.
Before flexing one's muscles one must ensure that they are worthy of being exhibited!

regards n bw

ravi (Maj PM Ravindaran)
-------------
From: Brij Thapa col_thapa_engrs@hotmail.com
Subject: FW: EMAILS FROM SECY GEN IESM - EMAIL 598/2009 - 13 AUG 09 - (R to Z)
To: "aaa Brig C S Kamboj" kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Date: Friday, 14 August, 2009, 10:07 AM

Dear Brig Kamboj Sir, Cordial regards.
Thanks for all the mails. Though I may not be in India but my heart & soul will be with IESM and Doon Valley will also take active part & give full support always & every time to achieve the planned Mission (It is regarding meeting on 30 Aug at Noida).
Brij (Lt Col BM Thapa, Secy General DESL)
------------
THE END

A REAL DOWNFALL OF INDIAN ARMED FORCES

A REAL DOWNFALL OF INDIAN ARMED FORCES


The implementation of sixth pay commission has drastically changed the warrant of precedence (WoP) for the Indian Armed Forces. The chairperson of UPSC has been upgraded to article 9A over services chiefs (at article 12). He/she used to be earlier at article 17 below Services Chiefs and also below officiating chiefs of the rank of Lt Gen who were on article 16.

Chairperson of SCs and STs were added in article 17. Both these chairpersons are now higher than Army Commanders/Vice Chiefs who are in article 23.

Members of SCs & STs placed at same level of Army Commanders/Vice Chiefs at article 23. What more can one say, even Field Marshall Manekshaw was placed at article 12 below two former civil servants (Brijesh Mishra and Vijay Kapoor). Now, does anyone know what these gentlemen have done for INDIA????

As was well known, Army Commanders/Vice Chiefs were equated with secretaries to Govt. of India on article 23. However, Note 10(c) of the WoP make an interesting distinction: In official functions held at Delhi, Army Commanders/Vice Chiefs of the Army Staff or equivalent in other services will always rank after the secretaries to the Government of India.

Following are the deductions:
1. DIG is now officially equivalent to a Brigadier (Earlier this rank was even junior to a Colonel)

2. Ministry of Home Affairs has declared that all IPS officers shall attain the rank of DIG in 14 year's service.

3. Senior Administrative Grade (SAG) is now officially equivalent to the rank of Major General.

4. Dept of Pers & Trg has declared that all IAS officers shall attain the rank of SAG in 14 year's service.

5. What would be achievable by 100% IPS officers in 14 years would now be achievable by 7% defence officers in 28 years..

6. What would be achievable by 100% IAS officers in 14 years would now be achievable by 2% defence in 33 years.

It is pertinent to mention that the senior most civilian rank in a state was equivalent to a Colonel during independence; whereas, over a period of time, the nation has only seen the downfall our BABUS. Their machinery collapses even with a simple storm, whereas, their protocol has kept on rising. I dont need to mention the professionalism of our Armed Forces; the nation knows this well.
In principle, our politicians need to give an explanation for this remarkable erosion of a soldier's status over the past sixty years, the Generals, too, are equally responsible. They have virtually failed in restoring the pride of their own men whom they command. No wonder, now even they don’t send their children to the Services; they rather prefer beauty contests or becoming Bollywood stars. I don’t blame them also, they have seen it all.

It is high time that we speak up or else only GOD can save this country.
--
With Warm Regards,
Col RP Chaturvedi,

Mail from Lt Gen Bahri...

Hats off to Cdr Balaji. Great work being done without worrying which service the individual belongs. May he continue doing this. I am rather surprised that no one has volunteered to take on this kind of service to their colleagues in uniform.
We have also started in a small way in Som Vihar to see that 85 widow residents of ours get their dues be it their pension arrears or addl 20% on attaining age of 80 yrs. The banks and PCDA have to be pushed to see that they get their dues.
Satish

Lt Gen SK Bahri (Retd

Views by Col Sundar..Secundrabad

From: Lt Col M D Sundar
To: Brig Kamboj
Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:46 PM
Subject: Independence Day celebrations - 15 Aug 09

Dear Brig Kamboj

I have been following with very great interest the excellent work you all are doing for the welfare of ESM .

I am currently involved on a much broader canvas - of bringing about a change in the "quality of life " of the villages of our country along with interested and committed selfless volunteers of the Sri Sathya Sai Seva Organisations .I am therefore unable to contribute any quality time for the ESM movement .However although I am not an active participant my silent prayers are always with the ESM movement so valiantly led by Gen Kadyan.

I have a suggestion to make regarding our 63rd Independence Day coming on 15 Aug 09. I am sure that every Housing Complex in the cities of our Country will be having their own small flag hoisting ceremony/ celebrations . This would be the most appropriate time for our serving /retired, officers / PBOR residing in their Housing complexes to speak about their experiences during combat so that we can familiarise the civilian audience about what a War really is and the role of our Armed Forces in maintaining the unity and integrity of the country.

This movement should slowly be extended to the grass roots levels in every village / hamlet of our country where a majority of the PBOR ESM live .

We should also make it a point to repeat this on every Republic Day celebrations ,as well as Anniversary celebrations on one fixed day for the 1962 ,1965 as well as 1971 0operations like the Battle of Bomdila in 1962 or Battle of Basantar in 1971 operations etc .

If you recollect I once spoke to you from San Francisco regarding the Memorial Day for American War heroes which the Americans celebrate when all shops are closed , the President addresses the Nation and people go to the graves of the soldiers who lost their lives in battles as well as Counter insurgency operations in Iraq etc.

We should also start a movement for a "Memorial Day" for India .Initial
y the Ministers , the bureaucrats may not support but over a period of time this will gain momentum .Everything in life has a small beginning like our ESM movement !

With very best regards
Col Sundar
(MD Sundar, Secunderabad, email ID - colsundar@yahoo.co.in )

Work is worship ,Duty is Go

Views by Lt Col Rajan Mannil (retd)..93 yr old WW II

From: Rajan Mannil rajanmannil@yahoo.co.in
Subject: WEFARE OF WORLD WAR II VETERANS
To: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Date: Saturday, 8 August, 2009, 6:02 PM
Sir,
I came across a 93 year old WW II veteran in dire state.He took part in the Burma Campaign as a signaller,spent nearly a year and a half in Japanese jails as a POW. On repatriation after the war ,he was retrenched without any pensionary benifits.I notice thro' your blog that Govt of Canada has come out with a scheme of honoring their WW II veterans.Do we have any scheme like that? Can somebody suggest a door where he can knock to derive some financial benifit that would sustain him thro' the fag end of his very meaningful life.His name is sgmn Narayanan Nair.Please oblige.

Rgds,

Lt Col Rajan Mannil (retd)
Jabalpur
email: rajanmannil@yahoo.co.in
(If any ESM receiving this email can suggest some solution to help the WW II veteran mentioned above, kindly write to Col Mannil - THANK YOU. - Chander Kamboj)

Rejoinder to Col IS Gill's views by Wg Cdr CK Sharma

Dear Gill Sir,


I agree with everything that you have written in your email. I have been quite amazed at some of the views that have come from various ESM, resenting what one level of ESM may have been given by this street-smart politicians of ours! This has been done intentionally, to see how much the ESM can be split into smaller sects, so to say!


One thing is very clear to me, personally, and to a lot of my ESM friends: If any planned violence is resorted to in demand of any of our wishes, I am out of this movement!! Never will I support any gherao of a public facility, a bandh on a public road that troubles any non-involved citizen of India or blocking of any train tracks anywhere!


As an aside, I would like to repeat what I had said earlier in one of my emails: Back in April this year, when IESM had issued that ADVISORY

(please note: NOT an EDICT or INSTRUCTION!), there were so many of those email active ESM who had immediately condemned the IESM. Who had very gleefully raised their loud voices again at the results of elections, saying that the Advisory ought to have been in favour of Congress.

WHERE ARE THEY ALL NOW?

What do they have to say about the shabby treatment meted out to ESM by their favourite political party?


And, Sir: You have hit the nail on the head when you have advised that every communication, of necessity, MUST respect the other, regardless of rank.


Cheers!

Wg Cdr CK Sharma

Rejoinder By Lt Col IS Gill , Mhow

Dear General Raj Kadyan,

This is in response to your advise to Col sohi, as a rejoinder to his view point.
He has advocated a tough stand and recommended some sort of an agitation.
You have very rightly questioned this. Yea, confrontation will not lead us
anywhere but WILL SILENCE and INACTION ACHIEVE ANYTHING?

I agree agitational approach will not lead us anywhere but what is the
alternative? FASTS near JANTAR MANTAR have not got us anywhere. And
fast by whom?Sohi has rightly pointed out the anomlies in the pensions of a
MAJOR & A COLONEL and a MAJ GENERAL and LT GENERAL. What I
suspect is thatthe people who have been benefitted with the latest govt
announcements, as most of theLT GENERALS and LT COLs have been,
theywould like to put waters on the proposed action plans.

Let us not talk in riddles if we want to really achieve something. Time has
come for some concrete steps which will yield desired results. The first thing I
would like to see is the UNITY and CONSENSUS on the chosen option or the
course of action. Let us not make half-hearted moves with NO RESULTS.

I findmost of us are good in scoring self goals and also we mightscuttle our
own moves by showing dissent. I have been seeing this happening for the last
six months that everyone in IESM or IESLis trying to become a LEADER.
There are too many people who are drum-beating their namesandprojecting
themselves. Can we have some CENTRAL SPOKES -PERSON doing this?

Finally,I find all sorts of stuff being FORWARDED on this net. Let us remain
focussed on one thing. Let us not show favour to some and reject others. If Lt
General ViJAY OBEROI's ARTICLE can be circulated by 'REPORT MY
SIGNALS"---so should be others. There should be no discrimination---After
retirement---we are all retired army officers and there is NO RANK
STRUCTURE in civil walk of life --whether a COL ora GENERAL or a MAJOR.

Regards. Rajee
-- Think Big,Think Positive;Act Big, Act Positive.


Lt Col Inderjit Singh Gill, Veteran
41, Signals Vihar,
MHOW(MP) 453 442
093018-77771

Views by Lt Col IS Gill from Mhow

Dear Friends,

With reference to the mails on the subject, I had also sent some suggestions,
which I hope must have been considered appropriately but the outcome not
known. When a large number of comn exchange takes place, some are
bound to be lost !!.

I support the views of Veteran RK that we all, once out of uniform, are ESM
and RANK should not matter much. In fact situation should be "Jee Kaho aur
Jee Kahao". (address each other with respect) It is also NOT necessary that
'bright' and 'brilliant' ideas come only with RANK. We are not in a sand model
discussion and there is no compulsion to support DS (IO / RO) solution.

We should also not think that because Lt Cols and Lt Gens have been given
some dues (denied earlier - but not equal to OROP) will NOT support any
future 'course of action'. The ESM joined IESM / IESL not for getting their
individual pensions increased, but for the general cause (discrimination being
faced by ESM / Serving people as compared to 'BABUs'). Let us not make
isolated pockets amongst ourselves. Some time back one ESM organisation
from Punjab had written that "PBOR did not resent, when Lt Cols got PB IV".
How does it matter to PBOR or Offrs if some people are given a part of their
dues? We are NOT fighting for individual gains.

From what has happened since election results came, we have NO alternative
other than moving JUDICIARY with a sound case and settle it once for all.

With regards

Lt Col Inderjit Singh Gill, Veteran
MHOW

Urgent Need to Strengthen Defence Forces‏

Urgent Need to Strengthen Defence Forces‏

Kindly peruse the attachment. Your views/comments will be highly appreciated. I personally consider it as a very serious and important matter for the strength and Unity of the country. Government ignored the Kargil Day as Unity Day of the country. The memory of ignoring Field Marshal Maneksha by the government at the time of his death- people of India will never forget.....


Hence I also intend to include
1. Three Services Chief/PSOs should never be appointed as Governor, etc after retirement so that they do not compromise the welfare of their officers and jawans during the service. After retiremeent if they want they can join any politcal party/contest as independent for political assignments.


2. It was highly demoralsing that retired officers/Jawans had to return their medals for bravery to the government and Services Chief/Defence Secy kept mum perhaps with an eye on assignments like Governor etc on retirement

3. Defence Secy should be from the defence Services to advise the Defence Minsiter and Prime Minsiter. IAS officers are not suitable for the assignment.
Defence Secy could be assited by Defence Experts in India as Joint Secy and Addl Secys

4. The Status of Defence Services Officers be raised vis-a-vis IAS officers

5. IAS Officers with almost no positve contibution to the country, reach the highest of the pay scale i.e Rs 80,000 (Basic) per month, it is about 5% for Defence Services Officers, and IPS about 25%, Central Services about 20%. This needs correction.

6. JCOs concept was for a colony by the British. They never had this system in their own country. Let young officers directly deal with soldiers and develop better rapport with them. Training programmes be suitably modified.

7. We should follow the world best models
8. There should always a separate Pay Commission for the Defence Services. Each Pay Commsiion had lowered the status of Defence Services Officers.etc etc..........Prem Sabhlok

Views by Veteran Ram Gulrajani

From: Ram Gulrajani ramgulrajani@gmail.com

Subject: Re: IESM SITREP 08 AUG 09 - EMAIL 586/2009 - 08 AUG 09 - (C to G)


Date: Sunday, 9 August, 2009, 12:48 PM

Dear General

How's that no one bothers to write to National newspapers that have their origin in South India? I feel all important articles by senior veterans should be sent not only to English media but also regional media. In fact, I feel, regional media has a wider audience than English media. Tamil, Telegu, Kanada, Malayalam, Marathi, Bengali, Oriya and NE region will grab such articles for publication. You will keep getting the feed back since IESM members are now wide spread.

Many regards
Veteran Ram Gulrajani
----------

Views by Cdr Pran Parashar

-------------
From: pran parashar pran.parashar@gmail.com
Subject: Re: IESM SITREP 09 AUG 09 - EMAIL 587/2009 - 09 AUG 09 - (M to Q)
To: ""REPORT MY SIGNAL" (CS Kamboj)" kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Date: Monday, 10 August, 2009, 3:56 AM
Dear Sirs,

Blessings.

Gen. Kadyan has covered the subject of OROP in detail in his letter. It is clear to me that whilst Mr. Manmohan Singh is the PM nothing is going to come of reasoning. He is the BIG HONCHO of the Bureaucrats. Sooner we stop relying on PM's sense of Justice and obligations to the country, better for us. Thanks to Mian Musharraf we are still getting our old pensions at least. Otherwise, even these would have gone! May be the intervention of TALIBAN, that is bound to happen, would shake up the PM. Though I doubt it.

The Govt has not paid the 60% of the DA that was supposed to be paid in May. PB4 having been approved, no instructions are issued for the payment of the new Pension Scales or the arrears. If we let up our efforts, nothing would come. No body can convince me that there is shortage of money in this country.

Live in hope and die in despair. I doubt if I would see the colour of money of the so called increases in my life time.

Lots of love and blessings.

Pran Parashar

(Cdr Pran Parashar, Founder Member of Naval Aviation, Retired in 1974, served the shipping industry for 30 years after retirement. Attends every major rally of IESM in Delhi, visited the IESM Shamiana at Jantar Mantar New Delhi, every day (except when his driver was on leave as being above 80 years he does not have a valid driving licence), while the IESM had its Relay Fast for Justice there, from Dec 08 till the Lok Sabha elction campaigns commenced - Apr 09.)

Views by Veteran Ram Gulrajani 08 Aug 2009

Dear General

How's that no one bothers to write to National newspapers that have their origin in South India? I feel all important articles by senior veterans should be sent not only to English media but also regional media. In fact, I feel, regional media has a wider audience than English media. Tamil, Telegu, Kanada, Malayalam, Marathi, Bengali, Oriya and NE region will grab such articles for publication. You will keep getting the feed back since IESM members are now wide spread.

Many regards
Veteran Ram Gulrajani

Views of Col James

Dear Brig CS Kamboj,

I located my membership from IESM webpage. There is double entry with respect to you. One needs to use "ctrl + F" command to locate individual names.
Kudos to the IESM corps team to collate and register all members, a colossal task indeed.

1427 AY1UTT001427L 12151 Brig Kamboj CS Noida Army
42 AYBRIG UTT0000 c Brig Kamboj CS Noida Army
1740 AY1KER001740L IC-16114 Col Kamini Radhakrishnan Palakkad Army
509 AYLATE NK HAR0 2672409F Late Nk Kamla Dev Widow of Late Nk Ved Parkash Jhajhar Army
3054 AY3MAH003054L 7026866 NK KANADE CHANDRAKANT K PUNE Army
3461 IC25777 Lt Col Kanagaraj James Chennai Army

We need to give momentum to the membership drive....rope in PBORs in large numbers.
With regards,
James Kanagaraj