Wednesday, April 29, 2009

Mail from Lt Gen C. Sundara Rao on his pension reply from SBI

Dear Sharan,
I have just now received a letter dt 25 Apr 09 from SBi regarding my pension & arrears in response to my complaint dt 8 Apr 09.

Lt Gen C.Sundara Rao (Retd)
May Joy & Happiness govern your life.

Subject: RE: IESM new members from Panchkula
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 05:43:48 +0000

You have been lucky. I sent a complaint to dgm customer service more than 2 weeks ago but have had no response regarding correct pension and arrears.
Lt Gen C.Sundara Rao (Retd)

May Joy & Happiness govern your life

Views by Brig SVS Chowdary...28 April 2009

From: SVS Chowdhry

Subject: IESM Advisory for the Lok Sabha Election

To: "Brig CS Kamboj"

Cc: "Gen Raj Kadyan" , "Gen Satbir Singh"

Date: Tuesday, 28 April, 2009, 10:43 AM

Dear Brig Kamboj,

I have seen some of the emails which are critical of the advisory issued by the IESM for supporting the BJP in the Lok Sabha election..

I attended the IESM Maha Rally at Jantar Mantar on April 12, 2009 . After a number of speakers had expressed their views, the last two speakers, Maj Gen Satbir Singh and Lt Gen Raj Kadyan, Vice Chairman and Chairman of the IESM, fully analysed the prevailing scenario and after taking all factors into account advised the veterans to support the BJP wherever any ESM was not contesting the election. Their simple logic was : We must support the Party which is prepared to support us, especially our main demand for OROP.

In some of the emails which were critical of the advisory, the members have harped on the need for remaining ‘apolitical’. We should keep in mind that by following such an approach during the last six decades the veterans have not benefited in any way. Moreover, in the current democratic set up in the country, no political party would pay heed to our problems unless we lobby and give wide publicity to our views.

In one email, an arm-chair critic has suggested tat the IESM should be disbanded and we should leave our problems in the hands of IESL. This is an indeed strange suggestion.

The IESM was constituted as the IESL was completely ineffective in securing OROP.

The IESM is a vibrant and truly representative organization of the ESM today and it should continue its efforts for the solution of the problems faced by the veterans.

The successive Central Governments in India since Independence , headed most of the time by the Congress Party, did not pay adequate attention to the role and importance of the Defence Sector. During the J & K operations in 1948 a cease-fire was ordered when the Indian Army was on the offensive. The modernization of the Armed Forces was ignored from 1947 onwards and this resulted in the massive debacle in NEFA in 1962. The culture of ignoring the view point of the Armed Forces continued even after 1962 as seen from the strategic folly of handing over of Haji Pir to Pakistan and the mindless deployment of the IPKF in Sri Lanka .

The record of the BJP-led NDA Government has been definitely better. They instituted the ECHS which has been a great boon for the veterans. The BJP has also firmly committed in its Manifesto that it would implement our demand for OROP.

I hope that the IESM members would appreciate the logic behind the advisory issued by the Core Group and would support the BJP. If the BJP is successful in the Lok Sabha election, then the IESM would insist on the implementation of the demand for OROP ; even if it does not win the election, the Armed Forces veterans would still have the support of the main Opposition Party to project their views in the Parliament.

With warm regards

Brig S V S Chowdhry (Retd),
410, Sector 29, Arun Vihar,
NOIDA – 201303

Mobile : 9811900718,

SBI Pension Solution by Wg Cdr R Lochan

From: rajeeve lochan

Subject: Incorrect Pension fixation by State Bank of India

Date: Tuesday, 28 April, 2009, 1:05 PM

Dear Brig Kamboj,

If you think proper you could put this on your blog please.

This is for the benefit of those who are drawing their pension through State Bank of India. In case your pension has not been fixed correctly pl write a Complaint giving all possible details to the following address and those who have the facility for the Internet pl do so on both the channels. The address is as follows:-

General Manager (Customer Service)

Customer Service Department,

State Bank of India,

State Bank Bhawan,

8th Floor,

Madam Cama Road,

Mumbai - 400 021

Phones: 22029456 & 22029451

Fax : 22885369

E Mail ID :

I am sure your problem will be sorted out. I posted a letter on 27 Feb by speed post and on 01 Mar I got the reply, arrears and correct fixation. All the good luck.

Wg Cdr Rajeeve Lochan (Retd)

4/205, Rakshapuram,

Mawana Road,

Meerut - 250 001

Phone: 91-121-2623333

Mobile: 91-941-003-1824

Sainik Borads Harassment..Wg cdr Dharam Sood

From: dharam sood

Date: Tuesday, 28 April, 2009, 7:07 PM

Sainik Boards are harrassing those getting Gallantry Award money. I have not received M-in-D money for the last nine months from Sianik Board Amritsar despite numerous tel calls to Col in charge. Quite clearly our own turn unhelpful, once in the chair.


dharam sood

(Wg Cdr Dharam Sood, Noida)


Views of Lt Gen KM Seth..on Lt gens HAG



Cc: "ved malik" ,
Date: Tuesday, 28 April, 2009, 6:33 PM

My Dear Navdeep,

I have closely read exchange of mail between you and Gen Bakshi together with Gen Maliks mail.I dont think any thing can justify grant of 33% of Lt Gens the scale of HAG plus.Navdeep it may be wortha while to check the number of DGPs in each state dont go by the nos of cadre post DGPs because in addition each state has created addional posts of DGPs.The no of addl DGPs are in addition.

Secondly granting 33% of the Lt gens the grade of HAG Plus based on seniority may meet the sense of equity but is froth with problems because it may debar any of the Retd Lt Gens to benifit from this dispensation and may act as a disinsentive for officers in command of the Corps and other important appointments like PSOs and Head of arms and services.

I feel Service Hqs have to revisit the whole thing.


Gen Seth.

(Lt Gen KM Seth, Former Governor)

Tuesday, April 28, 2009

New Members UNA Courtesy Brig Charan Singh

Dear Gen,

Duly flled forms in respact of 51 x ESM from UNA (HP) have been sent by courier on 27/04/09 under my letter 8648/1 . Subs amounting to Rs 9300/ were deposited by cash in IESM A/C 06162000001330 & original copy of receipt also sent with forms . The names of members are atteched . It may be seen that some ESM have filled PPO/Discharge book no as they did NOT have them readily available . Their application should be accepted . PLease ack receipt immediately & later membership nos etc should either be sent to indiviual or preferably in bulk to my address given in covering letter for distribution..

Regards Brig Charan Singh (retd)


Ser Rank Name Subscription.(Rs)

1. Lt col MS Pathnia 500.
2. Petty offr Dharam Pal Taswal 100
3. Nk Balbir Singh 100
4. Hony (SM) Lakhbir Singh 200.
5. Hony(SM) Jamer Singh 200
6. Jr WO BS Jaswal 200
7. Hony Lt S S Jaswal 200
8 Hav Gian Singh 100
9. Lt Comdr Bharat Bhushan 500
10 Sub Prem Singh 200.
11 NSub Gandharb Singh 200
12 Hav Mul Raj 100
13 Hony Capt MS Rana 200
14 Sub Maj Ram Chand Pathania 200
15 Sub Bhag Singh 200
16 N/Sub Ravinder Singh 200
17 Hav Lakhbir Singh 100
18 Nk A vtar Singh 100
19 Hav Mehar Singh 100
20 Sep Ram Nath 100
21 Hav Telu Ram 100
22 Cpl Gulzari Lal 100
23 Hav Surjit Singh !00
24 H/Capt Kuldip Singh 200
25 Hav Ram Kishan Sharma 100
26 Lt Col Kuldip Chand 500
27 H/Capt Waryam Singh 200
28 Sub Pritam Sngh 200
29 H/Capt Jagdev Singh 200
30 Sub Meha Singh 200
31 Sub Mohinder Singh Jaswal 200
32 H/Capt Sa Pal Singh 200
33 Sub maj Ved Parkash Mankotia 200
34 Hav TirlokSingh 100
35 Hav Surinder Singh 100
36 Hav Ajmer Singh 100
37 Hav Bhajan Singh 100
38 Hav Nanak Chand 100
39 Sub Prm Chand Vashist 200
40 Hav Davinder Singh Kanwar 100
41 Hav Tasan Nath 100
42 Hav Thola Ram 100
43 Sub Bakhtawar Singh 200
44 Sub Kartar Chand 200
45 Hav Satnam Singh 100
46 Hav Tarlochan Singh 100
47 Sub mat Jagtar Singh 200
48 Hav Om Kanwar 100
49 Nk Harbans Singh 100
50 Lt Col Rajinder Singh 500
51 H/Capt J S Minhas 500 *
TOTAL 9,300/

Mail from Gen Ved Malik Former COAS....27 Apr 2009

--- On Mon, 27/4/09, Ved Malik wrote:

From: Ved Malik

Cc:, ,

Date: Monday, 27 April, 2009, 8:04 PM

Dear General Bakshi and Navdeep,

I am adding my own observations and comments on what the Government has done regarding pension of Lt Gens.

It is a mess!

Firstly! It is too little and too late!!! These delayed orders reflect the negative mindset and reluctance on the part of the Govt-politicians and bureaucrats included. It appears that the orders have been issued more because of political expediency and not because fairness demanded it from the very beginning. I doubt if these instructions will give any joy or repair the damaged spirit and morale in the armed forces.

Secondly! The Govt seems to have no clues about the impact of such divides within ranks. When this was done for Lt Cols, I had pointed it out to the PM and RM. Please see my letter of January 10, 2009 below. (I can disclose this now.) It seems our leaders are not interested in any advice or are far too dumb to understand organizational matters of the armed forces.

10 January 2009
Dr Manmohan Singh,
Prime Minister of India,
7 Race Course Road, New Delhi

I am writing to you once again regarding the 6th Central Pay Commission (6th CPC) recommendations.

It is obvious that your intervention has enabled the armed forces to get a much fairer deal than what was recommended by the 6th CPC and the Committee of the Secretaries appointed to resolve the anomalies. However, it seems that the political intention and directions are being misinterpreted, or being implemented in a manner which will harm the very ethos and spirit of the armed forces and their combat effectiveness.

The pay and allowances of Lt Cols (and equivalent ranks in Navy and Air Force), which forms the cutting edge of our forces, have been divided into two categories. This divide will not only create serious functional problems but more seriously, it will destroy the camaraderie and espirit-de-corps which we endeavor to build in the cutting edge. It will generate disharmony in this one rank and be perceived as a ‘divide and rule’ policy to save a small amount of money.

We are informed that the Group of Ministers has not agreed to rectify the new police and military parities at the level of Lt Gen rank. Sir, this will cause command and control problems whenever the military is called upon to assist the civil authorities in maintenance of law and order, counter insurgency situations and disaster management. Almost all such operations (e.g. J & K and North East) are handled by Corps Commanders who have more than 50,000 soldiers and other resources under their command. If the DGP of a state becomes senior to a Corps Commander, will he command the military personnel? Will he have the capability to rapidly increase or decrease the military assistance? The military is, and should be, the last resort/instrument of the state. It is logical; therefore, that the final responsibility and authority for operations, whenever military is required in large numbers, should remain with a military officer. It is illogical to disturb such experience based parities, which will impact operational capabilities adversely and make civil military cooperation more difficult.

My last point is about the serious muddle that has been created in the pensions. No one is clear why a soldier who has served much longer in service, and risen to a higher rank, is to get lesser or same amount as someone with lesser service and rank to his credit. There is considerable confusion in the disbursement of pension arrears. Lack of clarification on these issues is not only making it difficult to implement new pension orders but has increased heart burning amongst ex-servicemen. Since 16 December 2008, many have them have been sitting on fasts and dharnas at Jantar Mantar, near the Parliament. I recommend that the Defense Minister should call a meeting of ex-servicemen representatives very soon and let his staff explain the rationale, implementation process, and also take their feedback on disbursement.

Copy to:

Mr A K Antony, Defence Minister of India,
South Block,
New Delhi


I do hope that the Chiefs will reject this 33% rider !

Warm regards,
Ved Malik

General V P Malik
Former Chief of Army Staff,
251, Sector 6,
Panchkula (Haryana) 134 109
Tele: +91 172 2586390

Monday, April 27, 2009

Interesting mails from member's..27 Apr 2009


27 Apr 09.
All Members And ESM Organisations
On Emailing List of "Report My Signal".
Dear Friends,
Jai Hind.
Some of the emails received from members are reproduced below.
On behalf of YOU ALL, 'i' thank all the members who sent these emails to us.
In Service of Indian Military Veterans
Chander Kamboj.

From: Ranjit Rai
To: prem parkash batra
Cc: Kamboj Chander ;TRUNCATED
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: Questions And Comments During ISIL Annual Conference-17th & 18th April-Delhi

Hi PP Sir (Cdr Prem P Batra),

Internet is great .......You can fire away and people can use delete key when they see your or my Emails.

I find you put nuggets always on the table and are better read on International Law than many of us but have you ever blamed ourselves .......seldom. The Bushido doctrine to look inwards and find flaws is the first point for success. It is easy to blame others though you have points always, and write well. Sir lets look inwards first as I have served 7 years Inter Service and saw the warts first hand. IAF helped sack Vishnu is one example.. Service before self they say.

Much fault on the security state of India lies with us including me from NDA and IMA etc and we cooperate till we are Commanders and then spend energies in fighting amongst ourselves for the cakes the Bureaucrats and Politicians throw down .....In Op Pawan I know Navy helped itself and LTTE never touched a ship or attacked a Navy person and poor Army lost 1400 souls.

And we come from amazing institutions where the GOI spent lacs to train us and feed us and all of us know Tri Service Jointness is the way to go but do we execute it. I have not seen it except on surface and forced by Manekshaw and our DIV O ACM Suri told me " We Chiefs are all First Course JSW and we will show what is cooperation". I saw non cooperation first hand as DA in Singapore for 4 years and let me confess I played to the gallery as is in our DNA.

.I see the same in the elections from afar policies but money and caste and allegiance to the Gandhi family and old foggies like you and me., and even elder to us Manmohan and Advani in the fray. Most do not know Internet. Our time to lead is over ........our generation screwed the system the Brits left and we thrived individually. At least I did.That is the first admission we have to make.

..A person of the stature of the NSA who is brilliant and ambitious told me the Chiefs do not want a CDS .........Co-operation

. Most new Navy is not welcome in the Army or IAF golf course any more .........Bloody $ 30 bill defence budget and the largest land holder in the country the Army, and non public funds in 1000s of crores not enough Golf facilities and Golf is a team builder.No one chief can solve this problem .........only joint service ........Army or IAF will not part with one acre unless it is to GMR who will make a golf course if he can.

People thank God we have Ladoo Sarai and civil clubs have over taken ours ........and cash rich Gymkhana is where Air Marshals and Generals show their fighting skills ........the election fever has begun in earnest for September. I love the dramatics and the free drinks I can get. No policy but free drinks from now onwards if you can play to the gallery. I can give lessons as I wrote a book on it and got it out of my system .........PP Sir shall we jointly author a Book. No money in it buts loads oif fun and hard work and you seem up to it. Serious I know how.

Our PR in schools is pathetic .....we make NMF for Rs 5 Crores and do strategy ........who is instilling patriotism in India in the young. Children of India and others. All used to visit ships in Navy week but now thanks to terrorism that's stopped.

. Can India's children of 14 years be terrorists ...They should visit our ships and establishments every Sunday and Duty watch will be proud as they used to be.....and some girls at 14 are very good looking today ...The nation does not know us any more except the rich see what IAF or Navy or Army does does on National Geographic and Times now ........600 mill watch Hindi and vernacular TV..

Cheers all. Chalta Hai as Jug Suraiya says and my motto too.

(Cmde) Ranjit Rai
(Very well said Cmde Rai. I wish Cdr Batra and you Gods speed in your new mission.
I wish after reading this email many more of us come forward to work for unity among three Services, unity among veterans and nation building.
– Chander Kamboj)
From: vinay singh
To: ;
Cc: Kamboj Chander
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 8:54 PM

The number of mutineers granted freedom fighters pension is not 1700 but 41. The irony is that none of them could be traced and hence not a single case could be taken up for grant of the pension. I tried to get the MHA to include the Jabalpur mutiny in the list of movements that are eligible, as has been done for other such mutinies and movements. Then, persons who are affected can apply individually. For some reason, the MHA has not done this. As a result, many of the affected persons such as Kochuvareed, whose photo appeared in the article, have not been able to claim the pension. Apart form the mutineers officially punished, many others like Kochuvareed were discharegd on administrative grounds, based on statements of JCOs and NCOs.

The Jabalpur mutiny in fact was the event that triggered the British decsion to get out of India without getting involved in a messy civil war, which they realised they will not be able to control. The trauma of 1857 lingered, and the fear of loss of British lives was uppermost in their minds. They made an elaborate evacuation plan for European nationals in case this happened. Thisisi all documented.

I think the least thatt should be done is to make a proper memorial at Jabalpur, like the one the Navy has made in Bombay. They also have an annual ceremony to commemorate the event.

Maj Gen VK Singh

From: Carl Gomes
To: vinay singh ; Kamboj Chander
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 5:22 AM

Thanks for the input re signallers. Being a signalman myself, I
have a question (a silly one): Signalmen do not wear the lanyard
on the right shoulder. Did they not have the prefix "Royal"?
You may like to read this article written by me yesterday.
I just wrote it on the spur of the moment - with no intention of
submitting for publication - just to circulate among my friends.

Carl H Gomes
Tens of thousands of New Zealanders observed ANZAC day with reverence at home and far across the oceans at Gallipoli, Turkey on Saturday. This is the day the nation remembers their forefathers (many of who never returned home) who fought in wars far away from home in the two World Wars and in other campaigns in more recent times. ANZAC Day builds bridges across communities and unites generations of Kiwis, who gather at war memorials all over the land to commemorate those who gave their lives for their country, to honour those war veterans who made it back home and to pay tribute to the serving members of the Armed Forces. The abiding theme was “lest we forget”, which was the slogan which resonated throughout the day.
For most, the day started with a dawn service (at 0500 hrs) in almost every urban, suburban or rural town across the country: young or old, fit or feeble (including the Prime Minister and his cabinet) they assembled in the dark, braving the cold and blustery winds waiting for dawn and the sound of the bugle or trumpet. It was both a day of mourning and celebration which was not just moving but tear jerking, especially for a veteran like me from a country where veterans are castaways who are castigated by the media, the bureaucrats and the ruling party. Where the likes of Abhishek Singhvi and Manish Tiwari can get away with insulting the veterans and Rahul Gandhi can blandly state he is unaware of any veterans’ agitation going on right under his nose at Jantar Mantar. Where Shekhar Gupta and Vir Sanghvi can get away with writing vilifying editorials and run perfidious opinion polls in their papers and the bureaucrats can fiddle with soldiers’ salaries with impunity. Where Vijay Divas is just another date on the calendar! (It is important to note here that the events were for the veterans, of the veterans, supported by the government.)
Later in the morning (elevenish) parades were held in these same towns, every one of which has a war memorial or cenotaph, where veterans and their families walked or marched through the street(s), complete with bagpipes and brass bands. These events are organised and funded largely by the local Returned Services Association (RSA) – a smaller version of the DSOI (Delhi) or the US Club (Bombay), complete with bar, restaurant, pool tables, etc., which even holds dances on weekends. Funds are raised by sale of red (paper) poppies which everyone wears on his/her chest with pride on ANZAC Day. (Everything has its downside: at the Waitakere RSA, not very far from where I live, thieves broke in while everyone was out at the parade and stole some $3000, most of it collected from the sale of poppies – but these are hard times and hence, bad times!).
The official ceremony was held in Wellington, the nation’s capital at the National War Memorial. It started off with the sounding of the “Last Post”, guard of honour, gun salute at the ‘Tomb of the Unknown Warrior’, followed by laying of wreaths by members of the diplomatic corps, led by the Dean of the Diplomatic Corps. (While every nation was represented by its Ambassador, High Commissioner or Charge de Affaires, India alone was represented by a minor functionary from the High Commission, who naturally brought up the rear; but I would not read much into it). After this it was the turn of the government led by the (rep of) Governor General, Prime Minister, followed by the leader of the Opposition, Mayor of Wellington, CDS, the three Chiefs of the Services, Police Commissioner (for the first time) and two youth on behalf of an organisation like our NCC. The PM laid the wreath on behalf of his government and the people of New Zealand and paid tribute, “We salute their willingness to fight to preserve our freedoms and ideals. They were everyday people who rose to heights of sacrifice.”
(Note: The Governor General -Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces- was absent because he was attending ANZAC Day ceremonies along with the Minister for Veterans’ Affairs at Gallipoli. 7500 people were present to commemorate the landings at Gallipoli when 2300 (out of 8500) ANZACs who were landed lost their lives in WW2. People from NZ and Australia save for months and years to make this annual pilgrimage to Gallipoli, but this year because of the recession, the numbers were drastically reduced.)
After this, the scene of action moved indoors, inside the chapel for the memorial service and more laying of wreaths - this time it was by the veterans themselves (some from World War II, some ex-POWs) on behalf of various entities like the Air force Association, Navy association, old battalions of the Army, even some campaign associations like the Normandy Vets, Viet Nam Vets, HMS Achilles Vets associations, etc. This was followed by speeches and tributes by the Rep of the Governor General, the Prime Minister and the President of the National Veterans’ Organisation.
All morning, every TV channel (7 or 8 of them) ran live broadcasts of events and also programmes devoted to old battles, naval actions and campaigns where ANZACs were present and one-on-one interviews with veterans who took part in them. Some of them screened war movies in the evening in lieu of their normal programmes. One channel in particular devoted the whole day to veterans with live broadcasts of services and interviews and also screened the movie, “The Battle of the River Plate” – the famous naval action involving our very own INS Delhi, nee HMS Achilles. Late in the evening this channel had a live 2 hour programme where famous singers and recording artistes sang old and new songs dedicated to veterans to an audience comprising veterans. There were old WW2 songs that my Dad used to sing, so I could sing along – ones made famous by Vera Lynn like “Lili Marlene”, “This is the Army, Mr Jones”, “White cliffs of Dover”, “Now is the hour”, “Auf Weidersehn”. JT and CK, you would have loved the one dedicated to the RAF: “Coming in on a wing and a prayer”, and a lovely, touching number that I heard for the first time” “There won’t be many coming home”.
Across the Tasman Sea, similar ceremonies were held in Australia: 20,000 (including PM, Kevin Rudd) turned out in the wind and rain in the capital, Canberra; 35,000 in Melbourne; in Brisbane the parade was led for the first time by expat New Zealanders and in Sydney a 101 year old Kiwi veteran had the honour of leading the parade.

From: prem parkash batra
To: ; Kamboj Chander ;
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 12:54 AM
Subject: Wefare Of Ex-Servicemen-Two Issues

Vice Admiral Harinder Sigh

Lt Gen NS Malik

Birg CS Kamboj
Dear Sirs,

1. Courtesy Capt Alok Bansal I attended a Meeting at IDSA on Friday 24th April 2009. Unfortunately I left my car lights on at their basement parking. But I was lucky to start and reach Armmy R & R Hospital for preliminaries prior to my nose bone surgery. After the consultation, I found I had left the lights on again and car would not start. And I had to wait for help from DDE Motors for nearly 2 hours.

2. Whilst waiting, a 5 years old girl was being attended to by her Sardar Father and her Mother, caught my attention. At 4PM in afternoon it was pretty hot and they were squatting on plastic sheet under the shade of Garden Plastic Umbrella Shed. Of course this scene I had seen far too many times before. There were few other families of PBORS too. A scene too common at AIIMS.

3. I was too moved by the Girl's unsteady steps with her Parents lost in uncertainties. I went up and inquired. The Girl had under gone cancer surgery on her brain tumor a couple of months earlier. Now She was undergoing Radiation treatment to remove remaining roots of the cancer. Father was from outstation and was attached to an Army Unit at Sadar Bazar. During the surgery they had availed off the Built up Accommodation. Now they were sheltered in the open with pain and hope. With much difficulty I pursued the Father and Mother to accept Rs.50 for Girl to have some snacks from the Canteen. In fact a DSC Patrol urged the Parents not to decline.

4. Whilst waiting there I made some more inquiries. On an average about 35 to 50 PBORS with their families camp in open road steads at this R&R Hospital. I understand 10 to 15 are Ex-Servicemen of this number. When some VIPs come the DSC Patrol chases them out temporarily. The built in Home is not sufficient. Possibly one more complex is under construction that may be used for this purpose.

5. We Ex-Servicemen debate endlessly and undertake DHARNAS seeking IZZAT, MAAN and Dignity as enshrined in the Constitution. The Question is are we giving the same to PBORS in particular whilst they are in Service! The answer perhaps may not be affirmative. We have the mind set of Mogul and British Armies, I would like to persuade my self to think that way. I have had the experience of both. I have seen the Moguls way in West Punjab in 1946-47 in a rural Police Station. When I joined Academy in 1954 I had seen some Raj times culture. Why it should continue till today? Why should these things be done on approved scales and wait for our Political Leaders and Bureaucrats for such mercies. These issues can be sorted out with multi-sourcing from Public and Non Public Funds. I had fortunately or unfortunately all the punishment postings both in the Navy and Merchant Navy to tame me and toe the line. If I succeeded as Commander Barracks, it was because I demanded greater discipline but with human face. I did not wait for their problems to come to me but saw them and sensed and had them addressed before they could. Not once my Superiors or the Government or the Commander Works [who happened to be my NDA Course Mate] and others did not help. Of the 20+ Ships that I was asked to serve in SCI in my 14/15 years, nearly 17 ships were manned by Kolkata Crews. Any mariner would tell you that was a nightmare. It would be hell for first month but after 3 months they would be most loyal. They would earn from me but would work harder and longer and would never let me down. SCI would benefit though long hours meant more strain on my health.

6. So why R & R cannot provide more humane conditions for PBORS as there is more rush now then when things were planned. May be more R & Rs are in the pipe line. But Delhi would have one only. We know it has taken an Iraq War and change of Administration for Veterans Secretary to appreciate this problem as some of the young war casualties take many years and multiple surgeries at their Walter Reed Hospital to be able to live life on their own again. And they stay with their families in digs as they call them in inhuman conditions on shoe string budgets. Are we waiting for war for these mercies from the Government.

7. I would like to think that for over flow we should go back to traditional SARAIS built on temporary basis. And since most of PBORS are from rural areas their families would be more comfortable in them. Facilities could be provided on the lines that are provided at many DHARMIC STHAANS that should include food. And may be manned on Contract basis or what ever way security may permit. Some of rich ex-servicemen may be asked to contribute. Why only letters seeking body parts. Incidentally I have recd. 3 letters in the past 3 months. They perhaps know better about my health status then NHQ and Director of Ex-Servicemen who think otherwise. Not that I would not give away my body parts for whatever worth they may be.!

8. We have been gifted a car by our Son and so we can commute to R&R for the last 3 years now. Otherwise my Wife had to change 2 buses and walk up and down from the Gate! Now when ever I return I always stop and ask if any body wants lift up to Dhuala Kuan. I understand 2 Electric[!] Buses run for 2 hours in the morning. Please visit AIIMS. Its Campus is also spread. There is round Electric Cart service and free from far flung parking spaces and other areas for any body and who cannot walk. Possibly they plough some parking funds into this. Where is the difficulty in providing this SEWA here. Perhaps it could be run by a Contractor and could be green service

9. Frankly things could be more Patient friendly at R&R Hospital.

10. There is another minor issue. By and large I avoid any contact with the Serving Officers and Ranks outside of the annual CNS's Lunch. There is some chasm! They make you feel that you have come for some favour and perhaps that is true. But IZZAT TO HAR EKK KO PYARI HOTI HAI. Recently I did go but regret. MTNL from this year have started asking for LIVE CERTIFICATE as they charge half rates from Senior Citizens. From INS India I was going to Parliament Street for Notary Signature on the MTNL Life Certificate. At my Wife's suggestion I went in again and requested the Commander INS India for signing as a Gazetted Officer. He took 10 minutes to speak as he was busy. Then he called his PO Writer to ask if he could certify if I am alive who after lot of discussions advised the Commander that he could sign and did. Bureaucracy is not only in Civil, it is in Uniform too. Today I had gone to Telephone Exchange to deposit the Form. And I suggested to the Officer as to why this requirement cannot be given wide publicity as this is new. He advised, please come next year here only and our own Officer would counter sign your Life Certificate as they do in Banks for Pensions.

11. Incidentally I found in USA a lot more facilities are given to Veterans than here. A retd. Colonel and his Japanese Wife flew from HAWAI Islands Airbase to OKINAWA Base on their regular Air Lift Service if spare seats are available by paying $39 Dollars for food charges en route. He took us through his Idaho Air Base too.

12. Sir, whilst the major effort is on OROP and the Elections, these small welfare issues too need timely attention. You may have it ascertained through your own sources.

With best regards,

Cdr Prem P Batra Retried.
#--28741551 and M- 9873270079
From: Col K Malaiappan -
To: KADYAN Lt Gen RAJ ; ; CS Kamboj ; Cdr Sharan Ahuja
Cc: Arumugam Rama
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 4:36 AM
Subject: IESM SITREP 24 APR 09 -

My Dear Sirs

1. Heartiest congradualations on these fantastic achievements which was due to your efforts which could have caught dusts otherwise.
2. IMA training was/is not included as service since the GCs entering IMA were not graduates. Now the entry level qualification is increased as Graduation for all type of entries in IMA/OTA at par with civil services Group I Officers recruitment where in minimum requirement to apper for civil services Exams is Graduation and their trainingis taken as servie, given pay and allowances. It should be for Armed Forces also. Kindly try for this also
3. I got WP dismissed. My stand was that ESM Corporation 's Chairman and all other functionaries should only be retired commissioned officers of the Armed Forces who qualify to be ESM (O) as per Para 12 b of DGR Instructions agencies)& these corporations are for the welfare of the retd officers and ESM and no non retired commissioned officers or non ESM should hold any post in state ESM Corporations. I appeared as Party in Person as Respondent and the Addl Advocate General of Tamil Nadu, two eminent Senior Advocates appeared for the Petitioner the TEXCO. On my submissions of policy, subject, object and purpose and countering all the irrelevant arguments of the Petitioner 6 WPs were dismissed on 9th and 16 th of March 2009 by Hon'ble high Court of Madras.

4.I have asked for the copy of the Judgement and will sbe sent on receipt.

5. Outcome of this Judgement. Over 15 000 ESM on SG duties with Govt establishments in Tamil Nadu will get additonal wages of over Rs 4500 pm and will be revised every6 months. TEXCO will have to be revamped by appointing over 57 retired commissioned officers, and over 70 ESM and illegally recruited civilians have to be thrown out. All legal Advisors, lawyers dealing with ESM issues in Tamil Nadu will be only Ex Service Officers/ESM qualified as Lawyers and practicing in High Court of Madras.

With best wishes and regards
Yours Sincerly
Colonel K Malaiappan (Retd), BE,MBA,(BL)
Phones 91 44 2532 5757 Office
91 44 2663 1251 Residence
91 94443 83683 Mobile

389/2 Green Gardens
"L" Block
Annanagar East
Chennai-600 102
From: kiran krishan
To: Kamboj Chander
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 8:41 AM
Subject: Def Pensions - Khushwant Singh

The defence forces are now on the radar of the doyen of Indian journalism Khushwant Singh also for their after retirement blues.

Writing for his Weekly Saturday Column ‘With Malice Towards One and All’ in the Hindustan Times, Chandigarh Edition of April 25, he talks of male menopause under the sub title ‘Retired Hurt’. Retirement is most painful for all males, and he compares it to menopause for women. Writing about the defence forces, he comments: “With the defence services, the day of retirement can be more brutal. Unless a soldier gets promotions, he is retired in the prime of his youth with a miserable pension he cannot live on. He has to find another job or an alternative way of livelihood.”

Thank you Khushwant Singh.
I hope someone is listening to you, if not all, someone in the journalistic fraternity.

Could you kindly publish it in your report, and, if possible forward it with reactions to Khushwant Singh, and our worthy PM, and the Congress President.


Brig Kiran Krishan, SM (Retd)
Coordinator, IESM,
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 11:12 AM
Subject: Deceased officer

Dear Prakash,

Reference your email to Kamboj.

This is clearly a case of the bank’s deficiency in service and highhandedness. I have dealt with the banks as also thru consumer court with good results. Many bank branches have been laggards in paying our arrears of pension.

There are three issues to be tackled; Commutation of pension, Family pension to the widow and Arrears of pension of deceased officer.

1. Commutation of Pension. This is clearly a ‘Deficiancy of service’ by the bank. As the pay order was issued by CDA on 11 Dec 08(?), the bank ought to have paid before the officer’s death on 03 Jan 09. A complaint should be given now to the bank with copy to their Zonal Office (addresses at check for PNB ), warning them of her going to Consumer Court for redress and damages. Next step is to apply to the applicable Consumer Court as per bank’s location. I can give you the procedure and formats if required. Even if she is located elsewhere now, she can authorize someone else to appear in court. It takes a few hearings and some time, but it works. No lawyer is needed.

2. Family pension should have been paid to the widow by now by the bank as per the existing PPO and at 6th PC rates. For this she should have given a letter and death cert to the bank. If not paid yet, she should give a complaint to the bank with copy to the Bank’s Regional office. Next step is to complain to the RBI Banking Ombudsman (addresses at www., and later to Consumer Court if needed.

3. Arrears as per 6th PC till 31 Aug 08 and difference of pension till 02 Jan 09 of the officer should have been paid by the bank. Again the same steps as above.

I will be happy to provide more information.

With warm regards.


Brig B M Kapoor
Director, Classique Management Systems
1172, Sector 37, Arun Vihar
NOIDA(UP) 201 303
Tele: 0120-243 1771
Mob: 98100 76682
--- On Sun, 26/4/09, Krishan K Punchhi wrote:

From: Krishan K Punchhi
Subject: Fw: [MilitaryVeterans] A LETTER TO THE EDITOR
Date: Sunday, 26 April, 2009, 3:54 AM

--- On Sat, 4/25/09, wrote:
Subject: [MilitaryVeterans] A LETTER TO THE EDITOR
Received: Saturday, April 25, 2009, 2:03 PM



The Editor
The Times of India


Army Commanders' conference opened in Delhi on April 20 wherein important announcements regarding the security of the country were made by the Defence Minister AK Antony and Army Chief General Deepak Kapoor apart from consideration of issues bearing on the welfare aspects of the jawans.

The event was widely reported in the media on April 21.

However, there was not a word about it in The Times of India. Yet, ironically, there were as many as three write-ups--one of these along with a photograph adorning the front page--on dogs, their qualities and attributes, their masters' whims and fancies and passionate liking for them. There was an article each on how an ex-VVIP is kept busy by his canine friend (page 20) and the sale of a particular breed of dog has gone up in India (page 6) consequent on its adoption as a pet abroad.

Just a few days back, on April 16 (page 14), The Times of India had carried a similar story on the same dog with a photograph with the same master under the caption "BO-WOW: First show of first dog".

Next day, on April 22 there was a front-page quote that read:"Money will buy you a fine dog ..."

What profound publicity and prominence provided to the poodles (preferred and patronised by foreign presidents, past and present), their Portuguese pedigree named "Portie" or "PWD", their progeny and poops to boot!

It seems the readers, Sir, are being sold a pup, literally and figuratively, by your newspaper?

In contrast, look at the crass negligence shown towards even important events pertaining to the Army Commanders, Defence matters and the troops who put their head on the block for the safety of their country and its citizens including you, Sir, and your staff at TOI! (There are numerous examples of this nature involving non-coverage of national/Armed Forces news. What we have been pointing out to you for the past about three-and-a- half years is just about one-third or one-fourth of the total lot.)

How shameful and disgusting! Why this slavish mindset?

To the best of our knowledge and belief India has been an independent sovereign state for well over 61 years and the reputed The Times of India is published from Delhi and yet not from, say, Dallas.

Warm regards.


SC Kapoor
Wing Commander (retd)
E-145, Sector 21
Noida-201 301
Mob: 9810515424


Lt Gen's new hike..???? Various Views

From: Charan Singh
Subject: LT GENs
Date: Sunday, 26 April, 2009, 10:28 AM

Dear Csk

A news item in Tribune of 26/04/09 on page 2 says "only 33 pc Lt gens to get HAG-plus status. If is so then the pay hike report for lt gens would amount a big joke on this rank . Army HQ hould accept no such coditiions .
Quite a few offrs have been promoted to this rank following A V Singh (?)Commttee recommendations . What is the use of such promotions or even rank if the promotees have to be treated like this ??

Brig Charan Singh (Retd)
Only 33 pc Lt Gens to get HAG-plus status
Ajay Banerjee
Tribune News Service
New Delhi, April 25
Last night’s orders of the Ministry of Defence with regards to placing a select-few of senior most officers of the armed forces in a higher pay bracket than others, has left the forces baffled. It now poses a challenge to devise a formula that will identify the posts on which more salary can be given.
Last night, the ministry, in its notification said only 33 per cent of the Lieut Generals and their parallel ranks of Air Marshall and the Vice Admiral in the IAF and the Navy, respectively, will get the enhanced Higher Administrative Grade (HAG)-plus status.
The number of the officers getting the enhanced grade is not “substantial” as some sections of the media had reported in the past, said a well-placed official.
Already the Vice chiefs of the services and officers at the GoC-in-C-level have been placed in the “apex” grade that is at a par with a secretary to government of India. Excluding them, there are about 62-64 serving Lieut Generals, 14-15 Air Marshalls and another 13-14 Vice Admirals. The letter implies only about 35-odd officers across the three services will get the new HAG-plus grade and the others will not get it.
There are two options to identify who gets it. One is to earmark posts and the officer gets the enhanced pay only if he is working on that post. The other is to give it as per seniority hence giving it only to 33 per cent.
SCPC: Twenty seven Lt Gens in Higher Administrative Group
Dear Navdeep and Friends,
The orders have, indeed been issued, but there is a rider. Only 33% Lt Gens will be on HAG+. Upgradation will be based on seniority. This will create more problems than any which it might resolve. We have created a system which is akin to landing up in a quagmire!
Maj Gen Surjit Singh (Retd)
From: Maulibhushan Ghosh
Subject: HAG Plus?
Date: Saturday, 25 April, 2009, 4:49 PM
What do you make of these reports?

After Lt Cols, govt approves higher pay for Lt Gens
Three days after implementing higher pay for Lt Cols, the government on Friday night approved of higher wages for lieutenant generals under the Sixth Pay Commission putting them at par with director generals of police, a key demand of the armed forces.

The defence ministry conveyed the government's decision to the Armed Forces headquarters in a letter which comes nearly seven months after the union cabinet approved the Sixth Pay Commission implementation in August last year, sources in the services' headquarters told PTI here.

Nearly 50 three-star officers, who are Lt Gens in the Army, Air Marshals in the IAF and Vice Admirals in the Navy, would benefit from the government move to place them in the Higher Administrative Grade (HAG) Plus scales.

About 33 per cent of the total number of Lt Gen-rank officers would be receiving the new pay scales at par with the DGPs of state police and central paramilitary forces.

There are approximately about 150 Lt Gen-rank officers in the three services. Among them, the Army, Navy and Air Force Commanders, who are chiefs of the Service's Commands, and vice chiefs of the respective forces are already in a special category of pay scales equivalent to secretaries in the civilian services. The HAG Plus scales would be for Lt Gens who are not Commanders or Vice Chiefs.

"The armed forces are extremely happy with the government's decision to accord the HAG Plus pay scales to Lt Gens. With this, the government has restored the three-star rank officers' their status. This will surely help in resolving the seniority issue in areas where officers from the armed forces and the civilian services work jointly," a senior armed forces officer said.

By accepting this demand, the government has resolved three of the four "core issues" raised by the armed forces with Defence Minister A.K. Antony and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh soon after the government approved the Sixth Pay Commission recommendations last year.

Other issues already solved to the satisfaction of the Services included according Pay Band-4 scales to 15,000-odd Lieutenant Colonel-rank officers, who form the backbone of the armed forces' fighting units and restoring 70 per cent weightage in pensionary benefits for the over a million-strong jawans.

While the government has already notified the amended pay order in the case of Lt Cols, the notifications for the Lt Gens and the jawans are yet to come, sources said.
From: guru bakshi
To: Maulibhushan Ghosh
Cc: Maj Navdeep Singh ; Brig Chander S Kamboj ;
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: HAG Plus?

Dear Mauli,

I deeply regret to say that the dispensation regarding grant of HAG+ status to the Lt Gens & equivalents in the three services, as presently announced by the Govt is, very unfortunately, another insidiuous and humiliating hit on the Defence Services, by the present Ruling Clique. The manner in which the Media has carried the news is exceedingly misleading, to say the least.

What we need to understand & appreciate is that the essence of what the three Defence Services Chiefs sought in respect of the Lt Gens & their Equivalents was "TOTAL PARITY In STATUS" with the DGPs in Police & Para Military from the "Day of the Promotion to the Rank ( Lt Gen & Equivalents ) to the Day of their Retirement ". As against this, let us consider what kind of, very cleverly, a very Moth Eaten & Insignificant, dispensation they have given out to the Defence Services and yet expect that, in our utter naivety, WITHOUT REALISING ITS IMPORT, we all will rejoice.

The hidden significance of extending this status to only 33% of the cadre of Lt Gens & Equivalents, which appears to have escaped the notice of most people including the Media, is as under :-

a. Since the Defence Services would never do anything which tends to 'discriminate' and create a ' Class within a Class', there is every liklihood that they would prefer pass on this benefit to all in the cadre Based on their SENIORITY without any distinction as to which Arm or Service or Discipline the Officer represents.
b. Based on the above premise, the HAG+ status would come to most incumbents only a couple of years after their promotion which has the following implications :-
i. Anyone posted as Corps Cdr on promotion would continue to be "Lower in Status vis a vis a DGP", leading to functional problems earlier envisaged.
ii. After a couple years of promotion to Lt Gen, in any case, the salary level would have already reached or may be even crossed the level of salary due under HAG+.
c. The past Lt Gens & Equivalents will not be entitled to any benefit under HAG+ when all the past DGPs of Police & Para Military Forces have already been given this benefit.

Does one need any greater clarity & understanding of the kind of ' game' played with us ? Is their any case at all for any of us to gloat over what has come about after a lapse of almost eight months of the Chiefs taking up the issue with the Govt?


Guru Bakshi

( Lt Gen G L Bakshi, pvsm
6, Sector 37, Arun Vihar, NOIDA )
From: Navdeep Singh
Subject: Re: HAG Plus?
To: "guru bakshi" , "Maulibhushan Ghosh"
Cc: "Brig Chander S Kamboj" ,
Date: Sunday, 26 April, 2009, 11:15 AM

While I totally agree with points (a) to (c) and the practical problems that they pose, there is more to the 33% figure that meets the eye, in the positive sense - But not for public domain of course. :-)

Firstly, all Lt Generals could not have been upgraded to HAG+. In every Govt service / cadre where HAG+ exists, it is a promotional appointment from the regular HAG, hence if HAG+ was to be granted to the military, it had to be an upgradation from HAG on which, according to service rules for every service, an officer has to spend a minimum of 1 yr before being placed in HAG+. A spl dispensation of moving directly from SAG to HAG+ is not possible and is not in practice.

Secondly, while the figure of 33% would, to an untrained eye, seem that only 33% offrs shall stand to gain, it is not so in the actual sense. It merely means that at any one given point of time, only 33% of Lt Gens shall be in HAG+ which means that in the chain of seniority, as people on the top retire (excluding Army Cdrs), the offrs down the chain shall be upgraded to HAG+ practically meaning that most of the Lt Gens (almost 90%) in service now shall retire in HAG+ while in the future the % is bound to go up barring a few freak cases.

Thirdly, now that the orders have been issued, the percentage in the forces attaining this grade is much higher than many other cadres and the best part is that the offrs in HAG+ would be equated with Spl Secys to Govt of India and not Addl Secys to Govt of India as is the case of HAG Lt Generals currently.

Fourthly, the Service HQrs are now actively working on most of your very valid points and the thought process of placing all retired Lt Gens in this grade is already in motion but let's see what happens.

A good start and I'm sure we'll be able to improve upon it.

Sorry to take your time,

Warm Regards


----- Original Message -----
From: guru bakshi
To: Navdeep Singh
Cc: Brig Chander S Kamboj ; ; ; Lt Gen KM Seth
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: HAG Plus?

Dear Navdeep,

I am gratefull to you for your prompt response as also do appreciate the illucidatory clarifications shared by you on the issue. However, I am still not able to understand that when, post 5th Pay Commission, barring one DGP per State, all the other DGPs were equated with Lt Gens, how come that the Govt has now been able to move 100 % of the DGPs into the new HAG+ Scale. This has resulted in every retired DGP,irrespective of how long back he retired & what kind of 'job' he retired from, now getting pension at a much higher level ( 50% of the minimum of the HAG+ Scale ) than the past Lt Gens.

Kindly do advise if, factually, my thought process is faulted.

I would also like to emphasise that, as you would be well aware, in the Army almost all the Corps Cdrs hold the same as' first appointment ' on promotion to Lt Gen in order that they are, timely, available for promotion as Army Cdr. In this context, someone from J&K mentioned to me that at Srinagar earlier the DGP used to attend the Corps Cdr's coordinating conference which he stopped doing after the DGPs wre moved to HAG+ Scale. Regrettably, this situation would continue under the present dispensation

Warm Regards

Guru Bakshi
From: Navdeep Singh
Subject: Re: HAG Plus?
To: "guru bakshi"
Cc: "Brig Chander S Kamboj" , ,, "Lt Gen KM Seth"
Date: Sunday, 26 April, 2009, 8:31 PM

That is because in the IPS, they have a rank known as the Addl DGP who wears the same rank badges as the DGP but is in the HAG and not the HAG+. Hence in the IPS, they have three offrs wearing the same badges carrying the same stars :

DGP (one cadre post) / DGP CPO : Apex Scale

Most of the IPS offrs retire as Addl DsGP and if posted to the centre, as IsGP. The pension of an Addl DGP who retired prior to 01 Jan 06 is Rs 24700 which is < the pension of a pre-06 retired Lt Col (25700) and a Col (26050).

Similarly, now in the Military, we have three grades within the same rank :

Lt Gen : HAG
Lt Gen (By seniority) : HAG+
Lt Gen (Army Cdr/Corps Commander with lack of residual service to be placed as Army Cdr) : Apex Scale

Now coming to 5th CPC. It was never like that. All DsGP were in a higher grade than a Lt Gen post 5th CPC. This was the hierarchy post 5th CPC :

Addl DGP / Lt Gen : 22500-24500
DGP : 24500-26000
Lt Gen (Army Cdr) : 26000 fixed

The placement of Lt Gens in HAG+, has, hence rectified the anomaly created post-creation of the ADGP rank. It was during 4th CPC that a Lt Gen was equated with a DGP.

All said and done, the military rank has in fact taken a beating vis-a-vis the police.
In 1937, the highest police rk in a state was equated with a Col
In 1947, with a Brig
In 1973 with a Maj Gen
In 1986 with a Lt Gen
In 2006 with a Vice Chief of the Army Staff.

We'll counter these problems one by one, rest assured Sir.

HAG+ is a good beginning.

Warm Regards

From: guru bakshi
Subject: Re: HAG Plus?
To: "Navdeep Singh"
Cc: "Brig Chander S Kamboj" , ,, "Lt Gen KM Seth"
Date: Monday, 27 April, 2009, 7:16 AM
Dear Navdeep,

Thank you very much for putting me wise on the issue. I deeply appreciate the trouble & pains taken by you to help me understand the issue in the correct perspective.

I would also like to take this opportunity to compliment you as also express my deep appreciation & gratitude to you, in my personal capacity, for the kind of praiseworthy service & support you are providing to the Services Community.

Warm Regards

Guru Bakshi

Mail from Lt Col DP Singh Navi Mumbai..26 Apr 2009

From: Colonel DPSingh
Subject: Advertisement
To: "pravesh renjen" , "rajkadya"
Cc: "satbirsm"
Date: Sunday, 26 April, 2009, 5:38 AM







Friday, April 24, 2009

By Design or by Ignorance , Mr Abhishek Manu Singhvi ?

Date: Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 11:53 PM

Subject: By Design or by Ignorance , Mr Abhishek Manu Singhvi ?

1. Mr Abhishek Manu Singhvi addressed General Roy Chowdhury and General Kadyan as " Mr" and that too not once but twice during Karan Thapers pgme on CNBC TV 18. I could catch only later portion of this pgme since it was not aired on scheduled date and time ( once again like last time) and I am sure not by accident or exigency but by another design !

2. Karan Thaper , ever alert and an informed as well as GENTLEMAN journalist did not hesitate to point it out to Mr Singhvi and asked specifically whether it was intentional or by mistake ( Karan new very well that it was an intentional and deliberate insult)

3. Mr Singhvi had no guts to say that he used the title as "Mr" to address retired Armed Forces Generals since in his belief it was the correct way ! On the contrary , he gave his SARDONIC smile and said that he respected the armed forces people or words to that effect.

4. The devious scoring of point on part of this lawyer turned politician speaking HIS MASTERS VOICE and always available on call to declare a CLUB as SPADE on behalf of a particular Political Party, is nothing new since Shri Manu singhvi is nothing but an expert " JHOONT KA RAFUGAR "

5. What is galling to me and obnoxious to my taste is his blatant misuse of so called freedom of speech and that too while addressing a Former Chief of Army staff and a Deputy chief, one a Four star and other a three star General . in a panel discussion to be televised to entire nation and to the world.

6. In his cockeyed , ill informed, intentionally mischievous , devious mind set he decided to call the Generals as Mr so and so and wanted to convey and show to HIS MASTERS that he is not beholden to the ranking armed forces people and is capable to put them at a proper place where they belong to !
7. And so what does he convey to the nation at large and to the world ! That the retired armed forces personnel are not required ( or not entitled )to be addressed by the ranks they last held ?
7. I am of the firm belief that a Government or for that matter A PEOPLE who permit or tolerate this will have to face the consequences, NOT LATER BUT SOONER.
8. I suggest that let us all inundate shri Abhishek Manu Sighvi and HIS MASTERS (whose voice he is) with the question-

Brig ( Dr ) C P Joshi

Thursday, April 23, 2009

Vote you must..views on Karan Thapar programme

Dear veterans,

I watched the programme on 22 April 2009 at 2230 hrs. I was taken by surprise when Karan mentioned that CPI (M) in their election manisfesto has already included the OROP issue and as Karan Thapar stated they had done it much earlier than BJP done. When Karan threw a question on this, I could see a bit of 'uncomfortable' Gen Kadiyan and the former Chief Gen Shankar Roy C. Both the Generals frankly admitted that they were not aware of this fact. This is one thing , I am still unable to understand as to how we missed this, when a national party which is campaigining all over the country and we have our own vast net work with each one of us reporting on the happenings all over the
country. Any way this is a lesson learnt.

When Karan asked whether IESM will be given a advisory to vote for CPM since they are also promising to look into the OROP issue. We must appreciate the guts of both the Generals as they said that, still we would go by BJP , as their leader Mr Advani hadus personally met us and assured us . Therefore would like to give them a chance.

An impatient and frustrated Mr Ashok Sangvi, during the interview looked like a person who had faced a' very humiliating defeat' . He totally lost his balance and the tone, language and above all the ego was symbolic of their attitude and intentions towards the ESM community. His comments conveyed an indirect message that the 'Services' are like bonded labourers and they cannot have any right or freedom even though it has been stated in the Constitution. He was mentioning that the advisory sent by Chairman IESM, has been thrown in the waste paper basket . He was also questioning the authenticity of our claim that IESM is representing the cause of over 2 million ESMs. Well in fact we have already thrown the congress manisfesto in the dust bin and let me ask one thing - How Mr Sangvi is claiming himself as the sole spokes person of congress party ? We have several parties within the congress party in Tamil Nadu . Which one he is representing ? Secondly, when the congress party itself has not formed the government with its own majority, how can it claim that it is representing the people and sincerely working for the welfare of over one billion Indian Citizens. Mr Ashok Sangvi, should know that the Soldiers of Indian Defence Services, are the true patriots, selfless and sacrificing . Their discipine, loyalty and unquestionably, whether they are in service or out of it. That is the reason we still exercise utmost patience and perseverence in spite of the blabberings by so called champions, like Mr Ashok Sangvi, for national cause.

Politicians will remain politicians only. I think they can never behave or display the spirit of "True citizens" of a Nation.

Col (Retd) K S Chakravarthi

Wednesday, April 22, 2009

PB 4 explained by Maj Gen Surjit Singh

Dear Brig Kamboj and Friends,

Since the issue of orders for the grant of PB-4 to Lt Col and equivalents, I have received a large number of calls and e-mails, seeking my comments on this dispensation. I am impelled to say that this instruction has come more as a relief than joy. It got delayed so inordinately that some of us begun to doubt whether it would be issued at all. Now here are the salient features.

Economics of the award. There is no doubt that the Lt Col have gained more than any other rank in the military. When the Report came last year, the Army Cdrs had benefited the most, by a factor of 3.07. The gain of the Lt Col was the minimum at 2.57. With the issue of this new instruction, their gain has gone up to 3..48. Therefore the arrears and the proportional increase in the salary of the half-colonels is the highest, in relative terms. For those who care for figures, here they are:

Pre-revised Basic Pay of Lt Col 15,100
Amount granted by the Pay Commission 38,880
Pay sanctioned by the Govt through SAI 41,690
Revised pay now granted (at start) 52,530

Relativity with Civilians. In terms of relativity with the civilians, the soldier has been done down on two counts.

The grade pay granted to civilians of S-25 is Rs 8700, while the faujis have been given 8000

The start point for the S-25 scale is 39,690 while that for the Lt Col is 38,550

In terms of the status equation, the soldier has slided down by one rung on the ladder. But this is true of all ranks from Lt Gen to Lt Col.

Effect on the Past Pensioners The past pensioners have no status to worry about. The financial gain is significant. And that should bring cheer amongst the veteran fraternity. Since this benefit is likely to be extended to Lt Col(TS) also, the population affected is fairly large.

The sum and substance is that this measure which was resisted stoutly by the MHA has become a reality, and that is a good augury. Our civilian friends had two reasons to protest. One that the military has been given MSP and two, that the present Lt Col is granted by time scale to all officers after completing only 13 years of service.

Be that as it may, there is reason to believe that if the service chiefs dig in on an issue, they are able to make a difference.

I would like to conclude this mail by suggesting to the veteran fraternity that we must continue to project our issues through the men in the South Block. They are still our best bet.

My greetings to all Lt Cols and equivalents.


Tuesday, April 21, 2009

Mandate 2009

Election 2009:

Yes, there are free lunches, free TVs and free power

As per an estimate if the politicians were to deliver all the freebies that they promise, it might take as much as one third of the budget outlay for the specific sector. Free electricity to farmers might end up being a substantial chunk of agriculture budget (in case the governments decided to honour their liability to electricity boards, that is).

The Associated Chambers of Commerce (Assocham) recently issued a statement urging political parties to refrain from offering freebies to voters. “Experience has shown in the past that whosoever political parties promised free power and hugely subsidised wheat and rice to poorer sections ultimately landed in problems as it is difficult to keep such promises,” Assocham said. “The state electricity boards and food departments have suffered heavily as their losses mounted on account of free power and delivery of subsidised rice and wheat,” it added.

A retired bureaucrat from Tamil Nadu told media that the promises, if delivered, may incur one- time capital expense up to Rs. 10,000 crore; increase the State's recurring expense to around Rs. 6,000 crore annually and potentially plunge Tamil Nadu into bankruptcy in the next two decades.
Read more:
Election 2009: Yes, there are free lunches, free TVs and free power

Comment: The government is a pauper and it can offer freebies. The tax payers money goes to pay for non productive freebies! Government playing modern day Robin Hood sans forests bows and arrows! Shame on Politicians offering freebies!

Monday, April 20, 2009

Role of Defence Forces by Col Ram Gulrajani

From: Ram Gulrajani

Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 5:46 PM

Subject: Role of Defence Forces

Dear Sirs

I have been reading all your articles and comments in the REPORT MY SIGNAL BLOG and have greatly appreciated your wide vision on the issues ailing our polity. You all have talked on specific issues and suggested interesting solutions. You have also sown seeds in the minds of ESM to ponder over suggested solutions for the ultimate good of the country. I have pondered over many such issues and here are some of my thoughts.

The elections for the next parliament have begun yesterday. The results are a month away. No one needs an astrologer or a nijumi to predict the outcome. We are sure of two things. It will be a coalition of different hues. The same or similar old faces will enter the august house.

Whichever party forms the government, the conduct in the house will be the same. The parliament and its proceedings have crystallised to a format which will be no different from the earlier sessions. The constitution will be further mauled. More schemes will be formulated to further line the pockets of each member.

We know all this. The welfare of the people and security and integrity of the nation is not even remotely the concern of our leaders. They are there to create more chaos to be able to dip more fingers in the national pie.

Every Election Commissioner has left his seat with bitter taste in his mouth. All their suggestions to carry out election reforms have been thwarted. And same old criminals with chequered backgrounds again and again find their way back into their seats in the parliament. There appears no redemption from this fact.

We know judiciary is blind. Judges are 'lakeer ke fakir' . They only follow what is in the books. Their being active is frowned upon. If they do, the legislature nips it in the bud. Remember Shah Banoo case. Judges granted maintenance to a Muslim woman divorcee and legislators turned it down by suitably amending Muslim Personal Law. There are umpteen cases of this kind where legislators have snubbed judiciary and made it rejoice in their perks and privileges.

The word 'police' has become synonymous with corruption. They have learnt to stoop where a simple salute would be sufficient. They no longer do what they are meant to do. They have left most of their duties to be performed by Defence Forces. They keep themselves busy hunting for opportunities to book cases to be able to extract exgratia cuts. Every new legislation opens an opportunity for them to exploit. Unshaven, ill clad, dirty, pot-bellied, paan chewing, wearing chappals and no cap, having a towel on his shoulders is become the standard image of police.

The Babus, the so called 'steel frame' of India, is no longer stainless. It is rusted, corroded and at the very root of all the ills in the country. It rejoices in the fact that they are able to manipulate legislator, hoodwink judiciary, deploy police to persecute anyone, make ministers sign on dotted line with or without inducements, divert all privileges to themselves and above all, have Defence Forces under their command.

In this kind of familiar scenario what is the role of Defence Forces. Should Defence Forces be mute spectators to ruination of the country? Have the Defence Force Officers forgotten the oath administered to them on being commissioned? They were required to obey all (legitimate) orders; to perform any duty given to them at any time and at any place; to sacrifice their life, if necessary, for the security and integrity of the Nation.

What is security of the Nation? Are Defence Forces meant only for external aggression? Is internal security not their job? If an armyman sees a bank being looted, is he supposed to merely watch as a spectator? Is he not supposed to help in preventing and catching the culprits? This is what is the state of affairs of the Nation and should Defence Forces continue to watch this tamasha?

Let me make it very clear. I am at NOT suggesting military coup d'etat. Defence Forces should continue to take orders from the civilian elected leaders (for whatever they are worth) in a democracy. They must remain as apolitical as their Supreme Commander (The President of India) to whom they owe their first allegiance after the Nation. The Nation and the spirit of the Constitution is paramount for every Defence personnel. When any of these is under threat, it is threat to our freedom and integrity. When various constitutional elements that are suppose to preserve the integrity of the Nation are unable to perform their role, it is incumbent on Defence Forces to issue advisory to the leader of the elected representatives (Prime Minister in our case) as a first step. In such circumstances, there is no need for protocol. The seniormost Chief should straight away seek interview with the Prime Minister and apprise him of the Defence perspective. This meeting should be enough to make everyone down the chain realize that Defence Forces still hold the commanding position and that there is no need to trivialise them.

I understand that Pakistan is a mooli of a different khet. But in the present scenario in Pakistan, this is exactly what General Parvez Kayani did to bring sense into President Asif Ali Zardari over reinstatement of Justice Ifthikhar Chaudhary and thereby defuse the explosive situation. He did not meet President and Prime Minister through Defence Minister. Time has come for India to learn a few lessons from Pakistan Army. We need not do what they have done several time to consolidate their positions in the political arena. I would still like Indian Army to be apolitical but not as tamashbeens watching the ruination and disintegration of our Nation. The Generals must recall their oath. Show more concern for the Nation. Issue advisory when necessary. Help in electoral reforms to stop rubbish getting elected as leaders of the people. If necessary help in amending the constitution to have cabinet of experts, who are not members of parliament. Experts in the cabinet will be able to keep Babus in their place by giving them orders instead of seeking their manipulative advice. Judiciary will do its job with more alacrity and police will reform itself from within when they are freed from the clutches of politicians and babus.

It all boils down to the attitude and guts of the serving Generals sans ambitions to rule the country or hopes of getting post retirement placements.

Col. Ram Gulrajani (Veteran)

Views on Advisory

From: jaimala gupta

Subject: Advisory


Date: Friday, 17 April, 2009, 7:52 PM

Dear Raj ,
I have gone through all the mail receieved after the issue of advisory . While every one is entitled to his opinion and the opinion should be respected ,but when it is given without a viable solution , it merely becomes a debate .
Recently a few ESM from my village in Bihar visited me . They had heard about some ESM movement taking place to address their problems . They were extremely happy that atleast there is some one who is going to fight for their cause , long neglected .
They are ignorent as to who is concerned about their plight and whom should they vote for . It is normal in a village that voters approach their Elders for advice . Our Adviory does that .it is well timed .
I dont know if we can obtain the addresses of all ESM and mail them a pamphlet in their language, We will then have an informed ESM at grassroot level .

jaimala gupta

IESM Views march Veteran Hemi Bhagat 1st JSW

IESM views march fwd pls

This is regarding comments of V Bopiah. Though ,he is right in stating that we should not put all our eggs in one basket,the fact is that all these baskets are seives. The politician goes by what is dictated to him by his selfish aims and supporting a party that has no political power is not going to be in their interest. Advani may have been inspired to visit the Jantar Mantar and make the right noises ,but you can bet that once they come in to power(if they do), they too will do SFA..

by hemi Bhagat

Mahesh Jethmalani OROP talk at Mumbai

From: om sikka
Date: 2009/4/17
Subject: BJP & OROP
To: 84thpc24thnav <>

Mr Mahesh Jethmalani is a BJP candidate from Bandra Mumbai. He was addressing small gathering this evening and answered questions later from public.

To my question regarding OROP and implementation,his reply was prompt that it is in Party's manifesto and will be implemented sooner than expected.

He is a lawyer and son of Ram Jethmalani and standing against sitting congress MP, Mrs Priya Dutt.

Event was recorded by TV channel 9.

For info of Core group,

OP Sikka

Appeal from Bangalore...Col SS Rajan




Considering the fact that BJP headed by LK Advani has openly come out in support of Ex-Servicemen and committed themselves to the grant of ONE RANK, ONE PENSION and other concessions relating to welfare & re-settlement of Ex-Servicemen, in their Manifesto; and considering our stated stand that WE shall extend our support & vote for only that party or individual, who supports OUR cause; the KARNATAKA EX-SERVICEMEN FORUM hereby endorses Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) for the upcoming parliamentary elections
Ex Servicemen’ Battle Cry
Faujiyon ka Vote siraf unko milega, jo Faujiyon ka Maan aur Maryaada rakhega
Faujiyon ka Vote siraf unko milega, jo Faujiyon ko ONE RANK, ONE PENSION dilwayaga
A vote for BJP is a vote for strong India, Prosperous India and a Safe & Secure India
What has BJP done for Service Personnel during the NDA regime during the period: 1999-2004
Massive construction of Married Accommodation for Defence Services personnel. Considering the acute shortage of married accommodations for the Defence Services personnel, especially for the JCOs, NCOs & OR (and their equivalent in the Navy and Air Force ), Shri Atal Behari Vajpayee, the then Prime Minister announced on 15 Aug 2000 from the ramparts of the Red Fort that adequate married accommodation would be provided in all peace stations all over the country to cater to the urgent needs of Armed Forced personnel; and accordingly the Directorate General (DG) Married Accommodation Projects (MAPs) was setup in 2003; and, construction of 2 lakh dwelling units was sanctioned at a cost of Rs 18,000 cores, to be completed in four phases by the year 2015. The first phase for construction of 60,000 dwelling units is nearing completion and Phase II has since been sanctioned.
ECHS. Considering the urgent requirement of providing proper medical care and treatment to lakhs of ex servicemen and their families, spread all over the country, Shri Atal Behari Vajpayee the then Prime minister announced the cabinet approval for setting up ECHS on 18 Oct 2002.
Increased Promotional prospects. It was again in 2003, that the then NDA Govt. head by the BJP, announced massive structural changes in promotions of Service personnel and granted approval for enhanced number of Maj Gen, Brig, Colonel, Lt Col and grant of Honorary rank of Naik, Havildar, Naib Subedar, Subedar and Sub major benefitting lakhs of JCOs NCOs and Sepoys (and their equivalents in the Navy & Air Force) who retire year after year.
Increase in allowances. Considering the hardship faced by the Armed Forces personnel deployed in High altitude area and the Snow bound Siachen Glacier, it was the BJP heading the NDA regime which granted considerable increase in high altitude allowance and Siachen allowance.
Honoring of Martyrs. It was during the NDA regime headed by the BJP that bodies of soldiers martyred during the Kargil conflict where flown to their respective towns and villages and accorded Military funerals, thus honouring the soldiers for their supreme sacrifice to their mother land.

In comparison what has the Congress done?
The recommendations of the sixth pay commission has been highly discriminatory, devaluing & debasing the Izzat of soldiers. The 6th Central Pay Commossion had recommended grant of only Rs. 1000/- as Military Service Pay to the JCOs & OR of the Army (and their equivalents in the Navy & Air Force), and when the three service chief pointed out to the Government that Rs 1000/- granted as MSP was crossly inadequate and recommended grant of Rs 3000/- as MSP to JCOs & OR, the UPA Government headed by the congress sanctioned only Rs 2000/- as MSP to JCOs & OR. It is not a shame to disregard the interest of it soldiers and not paying them adequately for their services rendered day and night, standing vigil all over the far flung borders of Bharatvarsh.
In Nov 2003, Madam Sonia Gandhi, the head of the congress party, addressed a huge Ex Servicemen rally at Chandigarh, wherein she promised that grant of ONE RANK, ONE PENSION wound be favourably considered in case congress was voted to power in 2004; but, what did they do? The UPA Govt. heads by the Congress rejected the grant of ONE RANK, ONE PENSION and thus betrayed the ex servicemen.
Congress ne 2004 mein vaadha kiya thaa ki, ONE RANK, ONE PENSION dhenge. Par kiya kya? Faujiyon ke saath dhokaa aur Faujiyon kaa apmaan.
Military Service is UNIQUE, with a highly demanding 24 by 7 work culture under hostile environments; and secondly, Military Service is the only Service wherein a Jawan is bundled out at the young age of 35, when he has a wife, two small children, unmarried sisters & his parents to be taken care of; without the STATE bothering to give him an alternative employment. It is absolutely callous. A young man who joins service in civil as a LDC or a Police constable; serves comfortably till the age of 60 years and retires in a much higher position with a good amount as pay & pension. Not so in the case of a Jawan. 85% of the Sepoys retire as Sepoys only after 15 years service. Most civilians who retire at 60, would live to see only one Pay Commission after retirement, considering their longevity to be 70-75 years and a few, two pay commissions; but a Sepoy would live to see nothing less than four Pay Commissions after retirement. It is the older pensioners of the Army, Navy & Air Force who are the worst sufferers. It is not only the serving soldier that the STATE is duty bound to take care of; but also the Ex Servicemen who have sacrificed their youth in service of the Nation with no other thought but DUTY, HONOUR and COUNTRY.

The callousness and insensitivity of UPA Govt. head by the Congress in not granting ONE RANK, ONE PENSION, has forced the Ex Servicemen all over the country to MARCH FOR JUSTICE, FAST FOR JUSTICE and deposit their Medals with the Her Excellency the President of India, to express their pain & anguish brought about by years of neglect & apathy by the Central Govt. What a shame. A civilian passerby rightly remarked, “Faujion kaa sadak par aanaa, Desh kaa durbhaagya hai”. (Ex Servicemen being forced to take to the streets, is indeed a tragedy for the Nation). The unfair treatment being meted out to the Ex Servicemen is not lost on the serving soldier, either; for one can hear them say, “Aaj unke saath, kal hamaare saath”. But who cares? Definitely not the politicians in power.
God and the Soldier We Adore. In times of danger Not before.
The danger Past and all things Righted, God is forgotten and the Soldier Slighted.
Rudyard Kipling.

The Indian Army, Air Force and Navy need to be strengthened in view of
rapidly changing regional and global realities. Tragically, the services
have been ignored by the Congress and failure to address the concerns of the
Army, Air Force and Navy has bred undesirable discontent. The BJP will
address all pending issues immediately. It will be guided by the following
solemn commitments while dealing with the Defence of India:

1. The long-pending acquisition of military hardware will be expedited
through absolutely transparent means in a time-bound manner.

2. Budget allocations for Defence forces will be spent without being
allowed to lapse. The criminal negligence of the Defence forces by the UPA
Government has resulted in nearly Rs 24,000 Crores by way of budgetary
allocations being allowed to lapse over five years. This not only endangers
the lives of our soldiers but also the security of the nation.

3. Our forces are performing a service to the nation and deserve better
pay and privileges. Towards this end, the BJP is committed to the following
a. The pending issues of pay and privileges will be revisited and
resolved to the satisfaction of the Defence forces. The modalities for setting up a separate Pay Commission for the forces will be expedited.
b. All personnel of the Army, Air Force and Navy, as also paramilitary
forces, will be exempt from paying income tax on their salaries and

c. The honorarium for winners of gallantry awards like Pram Vir Chakra,
which is abysmally low at Rs 500 to Rs 3,000, will be increased ten-fold to
Rs 5,000 to Rs 30,000. This will be done with retrospective effect; the
honorarium will be taxfree.
d. The principle of ONE RANK, ONE PENSION, will be implemented;

e. Incentive-based steps will be taken to make joining the Defence
services an exciting proposition for young men and women to overcome the
shortage of officers.
f. Incentives will be offered to State Governments for ensuring
honourable settlement of retired personnel of the Defence services.

4. The present shortage of Defence personnel at all levels will be met
by making the Services an attractive career option. This would include
competitive pay and privileges, and pension benefits. This task will be
completed in a time-bound manner.
5. The capacities of Defence Research and Development Organisation will
be enhanced. The PPP route will be explored for conventional Defence
production bearing in mind the nation’s needs and to make India a
competitive player in the global market by 2020.
Would you vote for Dhokebaaz Congress or Vote for Fauji friendly BJP
Vote for BJP
Our “bhalaai” ie. interest lies in Voting for BJP
Victory for BJP is Victory for Ex Servicemen

Veteran Colonel SS Rajan,

State Convenor, Karnataka Ex Servicemen Forum,
77 Shankara Mutt Parallel Road, Shankarpuram, Basavanagudi, Bangalore-560004
Tele No.91-80-26679490 Cell No. 9448024377 Email:


Views on IESM Advisory from all over India

From: Kameshwar Pandey

Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 12:35 PM
Subject: The Election Advisory

Dear Kamboj Sir,

The silent and dignified protest of ESM at Jantar Mantar, New Delhi was concluded after 118 days of hunger and relay-hunger strike. Like all great things, we made a humble beginning with a few hundreds, soon became a thousand, then many thousands on the 8th of February 2009 and many many thousands on 12th April 2009. We cannot forget those initial days when Gen Kadyan used to tell us all to be prepared for a long and hard battle. It was this unwavering long term vision of Lt Gen Raj Kadyan, Maj Gen Satbir Singh and all members of the core group that this mission has reached such great heights and has become a national phenomenon. And we have no doubt in our mind that not too far from now these thousands will convert to Lacs and even Crores. “Abhi To Ye Angdayi Hai, Aage Badi Ladayi Hai”.
“Kaarwaan ab nikal pada hai Gen Kadyan ke naitritva me. Ab rokey hum nahin rukengey, badhey chalengey har or se”
With respect, I find it rather amusing to hear all kinds of comments about the mission (and the latest election advisory to be specific) from ESM who have no idea about the ground realities. How much value can one attach to comments made while sitting in an air conditioned office when those who make such offensive comments have not even visited the actual Jantar Mantar site and have not witnessed the plight of thousands of ESM all across the nation. I request such ESM to think before they write letters. Gen Kadyan so humbly mentioned in his email last night that the value of an argument lies in its content and not the shrillness of the tone. And while I totally respect people having their own personal opinions, it is probably best that they don’t share it at a forum where it may harm the mission.
The recent advisory clearly and explicitly mentions that while it is advised that all people associated with this mission justice for defense forces vote for BJP (and its allies), those who think differently may do so. This decision has been taken after a lot of thought going into it and those who do not accept it please do not talk about it here at this forum. And especially if you do not have any idea of what this mission really is about! This mission is about justice, respect and equality. It’s about those thousands who served the country selflessly and are now counting on this mission to bring justice to them which has been denied for years and years.
I had the opportunity of visiting and addressing ESM at the Kanpur, Lucknow and Varanasi IESM rallies along with Gen Satbir, Gen Ranjan and Col Bhardwaj. As also, I addressed ESM in Buxar, Patna and Arrah. I have interacted with thousands of ESM and I have personally met hundreds of officers, JCOs and jawans of all arms (and civilians too!) at Jantar Mantar. Everyone supports our cause and deeply appreciates Gen Kadyan and the rest of our leadership. I feel deeply grateful and blessed to work for this mission under this able leadership where ranks and terms like Officers, JCOs and Jawans have become obsolete and we have all come under one banner – The Indian Ex-Servicemen Movement. This is probably the first time in the entire history of Indian Armed Forces that all ranks and all arms have come under the same flag for a noble cause.
So again, please do not criticize our leaders, do not comment on there integrity and leadership capabilities. They have brought us here and they will, most definitely, make this mission successful.
Again, with respect, I suggest all of those who still have questions, to read the announcements made at the Maha Rally carefully. Instead of being under immense pressure and inputs coming from all directions with differences of opinion, the advisory was so beautifully, intelligently and firmly announced, taking into account all possible factors. After the advisory was issued, our faith in the leadership increased a million times.
The way we see it, we’re looking very very good. Better than ever. Nothing and no one can stop us now. Let us ignore the negative comments and let us carry this mission forward as one strong team comprising of all officers, JCOs and jawans from all arms.
With warm regards,
Sub Maj Hony Lt Kameshwar Pandey (Retd.),
(Ex Corps of Electrical & Mechanica Engineers, New Delhi.)

From: Muthu Krishnan
Subject: Advisory
Date: Sunday, 19 April, 2009, 10:13 AM

Respected Sir,

The advisory is a must. You have done a right thing at the right time. Come what may. We will stand to it. It is a great guidance to our PBORs who are running from pillar to post for the past 60 years for a Leader and good Leadership. Now we have got it, that is IESM ,Lt.Gen.Raj Kadyan and its team. We will win.
May God bless u all with good health to enjoy the fruit.

Yours sincerely,

C.Muthukrishnan (Ex.Sgt)
Active Member. IESM
From: rs chhikara
Subject: Let us analyse the votin advisory of 12 April
Date: Saturday, 18 April, 2009, 6:52 PM
Dear Chander,
Have been reading mails after12 April. What a frustrating waste of energy and time especially your one on one with Inderjeet. Have you not yet mastered the art of ignoring fools?
You can not bark back at mad dogs . Can you?

Kindly see if the attached piece deserves to be circulated.
(Brig RS Chhikara, Veteran, Gurgaon)

Having gone through some of the mails circulated by Report My Signals, it is worrisome to say the least and nauseating at times. One thing taught to us all during service is appreciating a situation. Some friends seem to have been spared this training. Why not undertake a quick appreciation for our common benefit? I am going to try it at the cost of your time and attention. That is one possible way out of the current futile debate about the advisory articulated by Gen RS Kadyan on 12 April. The analysis is not in standard format but should hopefully still be intelligible to the fraternity.

The following factors merit attention: -

1. All soldiers past or present are expected to cast their vote in favour of or against political candidates. Most of them represent one or the other political party. So voting does not tantamount to being political, or ‘not voting’ a sign of being apolitical. In fact, not voting can well be an antinational abdication of one’s responsibility as a citizen. Unless you are of the belief – ‘To hell with democracy, to hell with the way our political representatives are running / ruining our country.’ That, serving soldiers have been often dissuaded from voting is an index of political machinations and officer apathy or perhaps, even collusion. By refusing to caste your vote on the false pretext of claiming to be apolitical is neither good for the country nor good for its defence, its defence personnel or its defence veterans. This attitude must change.

2. Starting with the bogey of possible military take over as was raised variously during Nehru’s time and resulting in ideas like operation AMAR during the late 50s and early 60s, the defence of India and the Defence services were systematically down graded and derided in matters not only of pay and allowances and pensions but of protocol and Izzat too. Is there any one out there in the comity of soldiers, ESM and thinkers et all, who will contradict this fact except from the cozy comfort of his living room over a Chhota Whiskey? So there had to come a time when this trend of degradation had to be corrected or at least opposed. Is there any one who believes that the system would bring about such desired and desirable change in attitudes and actions on its own? This would obviously necessitate giving up vested interests by our polity and bureaucracy. No Way; unless one is an incorrigible optimist. Such change only appears plausible either by pressure of public anger after a not impossible debacle like that in 1962 or a repeat of 26/11 or worse. If the force of public opinion can be brought to bear without waiting for catastrophe, it is a welcome possibility. The urgent need for such change in politico bureaucratic attitude is indeed beyond debate. Supreme National interest is the only argument – for or against, in such a discussion if at all discussion is needed.

3. In the past IESL and many other ESM bodies, big and small, have been taking up issues related to the ESM with the Central Government and other authorities, but the fact remains – their success has been marginal. Many have tried to harness ESM energy for promoting personal or parochial interests both financial and political. There has been a strong perceived need for a strong voice to articulate the inherent dangers entrenched in the problem and to demand change. Such a demand or voice did not come from our polity, our bureaucracy, our media, our academia, our intelligentsia or our Page Three personalities. Indeed it could not have emanated there for obvious reasons. It could have come as it eventually did come, only from the OG, WHITES AND SKY BLUE Fraternity. IESM is a product of these concerns and this felt need. It is a manifestation of the nationalistic non parochial and fully justified hopes and aspirations of admittedly the most disciplined and patriotic section of our society. Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose would indeed have been proud of such spontaneous nationalistic fervor and would have loved to lead the nascent movement.

4. Now, let us consider various options available to an organization like the IESM. Your kind attention is drawn to the following possibilities: -

(a) The Status Quo or Crib-On Option. Hold mourning sessions in our drawing rooms but let things go on as they are. Remain diffident and hopeless – CCC; Curse, Crib and Carry on. Kuchh Nahin Ho sakta, Hum Kya Kar sakte Hain, Tum Kya Kar Loge, Tumhari Baat koun sunega etc Typical Senior Officer Syndrome (Pun is intended as a self goal).

(b) CYA – Cover Your A… Get scared and jettison any thought of self respect. Shor karoge to mare Jaoge, Politician aur Babu baki sab bhi Chheen Lenge, Serving generals ka Career Barbad Kardenge, Vishnu Bhagwat Ka Kya Hua? Canteen, Toll Tax sab Jaega. Etc.

(c) Pass The Buck. It is for the serving Chiefs to do something. What can we ESM do? They have their voice and position, even a collective voice. Those in service will be ESM tomorrow- they should take up the issue. They have teeth which they better show. We are apolitical, ethically oriented, Peace and Comfort loving ESM and have earned our rightful indifference in the interest of our inner peace, our golf, our game of cards and our Siesta after lunch. Chhadd yaar- deal kar. Kadyan Ko Governor Banna Hai Shayad Ban Jae . Kamboj Election Larega. Waise Bhi ‘ no non-sense aadmi hai’. Kisi na kisi se larta hi rehta hai. Laraku Hai. Inderjeet ki bhi to suno.
(I assure Veterans, I have no ambition of any election – Chander Kamboj)

(d) Serving and retired soldiers, sailors and airmen should use their vote power and public persuasion skills. We must enroll media, intelligentsia, Kisan power and the good Samaritan in our cause. If we and our families stand together we can muster 2.5 Cr votes and if we do some real grass root level work among the rural communities we can add like numbers to our strength. Apparently impressive logic and good intent. In the matter of using our perceived vote bank to best effect there are a few options;

(i) Let us form a Political Party of ESM and show them how the country should be governed. However, beating the system on the strength of pious intent but in the face of limited financial resources, very limited demonstrated unity, and lack of will to work at the grass roots level are matters inviting serious consideration. At the very least it will require continued serious hard work over decades. Yet the idea is worthy of serious follow up. Thankfully the IESM appear to be committed to the idea at least for now. This appears to be an option which should not be abandoned in a hurry.

(ii) Vote intelligently for good candidates who are committed to building a safe, secure and prosperous India while being sensitive and if possible committed to the interests of the services community. A good democratic and politically neutral thought indeed. The problem arises when it comes to the number of such individuals in the electoral fray, their ability to retain their own freedom of thought and action in the face of more attractive opportunities, their reliability in the matter of promises and our own ability to make a judgment and evolving a consensus among the ESM.

(iii) Perhaps the last available option is to support a political outfit which shows commitment to the defence of India, to the efficacy of the Defence forces as the last policy resort of the Nation and to the well being of the soldier while in service and later. This must be a political outfit with a reasonable chance of forming or leading a government and a ‘DNA’ of reliability in working for the fulfillment of their promises. There are only two options: Viz The Congress and the BJP , unless some of us are so liberal as to include M/S Karat, Behen Mayawati, Friends Mulayam- Amar Singh or Laloo- Paswan, or the DMK/ AIADMK stalwarts. Personally, I am inclined to reject, outright, the idea of being part of a PEOPLE’s Liberation ARMY of INDIA with Karat as Commisar in Chief. We may like to indulge in an endless debate about the other worthies if you so choose.

5. Given the above options, what could the steering Committee of the IESM do? They had only two options and a couple of sub options. Personalities in the steering Committee are immaterial.

(a) Abdicate their leadership responsibilities. Refuse to advise much less to persuade or direct.

(b) Advise best available Course of Action. In the face of what the Congress and the BJP have said on and off record, the best option appears to comprise of three parts.

(i) Continue to consolidate and expand the idea of promoting a party of ESM (Not many disparate parties) in the hope that in due course it will gain mass and momentum.

(ii) During the interim, support one of the two major parties on a conditional basis. BJP under the present circumstances is the only outfit that qualifies for our support.

(iii) Keep up pressure on the BJP to fulfill their promises either as a governing power or as a leading opposition.

(iv) In any event, keep your powder dry in the eventuality of either a deliberate let down or a compelling alternate opportunity. Maintaining and further consolidating the unity of ESM and continuing to raise a significant and harmonized political force of ESM is an essential aim to be maintained.

6. Let us hope that further debate on the advisory issued by IESM, if at all necessary should be in the context of this analysis / hypothesis.

Brig RS Chhikara, Veteran, Gurgaon.
From: chilukuri narasimharao
To: "kamboj"
Date: Sunday, 19 April, 2009, 3:45 PM
Dear Sir,

Advisory given by the Core Committee is absolutely normal in helping those to help us. Till now no political Party ever bothered to think of IESM and their agitation .There is silent embargo on the media not to cover the events at Jantar Mantar.

Under the conditions BJP is the only Party visited the venue at Jantar Mantar and also declared to accept ONE RANK ONE PENSION in their Manifesto.. Noy only this they promised to look into conditions for attracting people to join defense services This is long felt need for updating war potential of the Nation. Advaniji is on the right track to augment defense preparedness of India.

Let us see that NDA gets into Loksabha by following the advisory by one and all. Of course one is at liberty to cast his vote as per his choice. But before exercising his choice donot forget to help those who are going to help IESM and its ideals!

Regarding those who criticise the Advisory ,I have a story .In good old days there were two states out of which one state want to wage war and annex the other state. One of the ministers of the King who wants to wage war advised him not to wage war but preach the doctrine of 'Brahma Satyam Jagath Sunyam' King agreed and the philosophy of the doctrine was preached to all personnel of the state .When the King found that the philosophy got ho;d of the state ,he ordered his trops to advance. There was no opposition from anybody as they were chanting' Brahma Satam Jagath Sunyam" King annexed the State without any difficulty.
People who teach Apolitical philosophy wil be doing the same harm as the 'Brahma Satyam Jagathu Sunyam ' did to the state that was annexed. I consider that apolitical slogan makes the organisation impotent to achieve things.

From: Malu
Subject: Election Advisory
Date: Saturday, 18 April, 2009, 7:54 AM
Dear General,

You have done the correct thing by issuing the Election Advisory. Well done sir. Please do not be discouraged by what people say.


Brigadier V Mahalingam
From: pran parashar
Subject: Re: "REPORT MY SIGNAL" - IESM SITREP 17 APR 09 - EMAIL 322/2009 - 17 APR 09 - (M to Q)
To: ""REPORT MY SIGNAL" (CS Kamboj)"
Date: Saturday, 18 April, 2009, 10:38 PM
Dear Brig. Kamboj.

May God continue to bless you. You have been doing a tremendous job and are
continuing to do it.
Just ignore the Capital I & J. Take no notice of it.
We know enough about COL. Inder Jit.

I wish he had been attending some of our sessions at Jantar Mantar. As you know, I used to be there almost every day. I used to hear the conversation amongst PBORs. They used to say to each other that the Officers are only making use of us. Since I can understand Punjabi, I used to advise them that I am 84 years old and may be would not see the colour of this money if anything is sanctioned. But it is because of our common loyalty that I spend time at the Centre. They were very appreciative of the hard work being done by the core group. They had a lot to say about Gulia and Inderjit. It is no use repeating it. Men are not fools any more.

I wish you all the success and may God grant you srength to continue the good work. I am sure OROP is not the end of our efforts. There is plenty to be done for the wife's and children of Servicemen.

Lots of love and blessings.

Pran Parashar
(Cdr Pran Parashar, one of the Founder Members of Naval Aviation)
From: Satish Dewan

Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 12:30 PM


Dear friends/brothers in arms,

You are all aware as to how disgusted people of the country are with the present lot of politicians whose genuine patriotism is questionable . Therefore , people are looking for a new brand of experienced well educated & truly patriotic young men & women to come forward to bring about the change the people are looking for. The public seem to have more confidence in the Defence personnel. Therefore a party composed of defence service personnel & intellectuals has been formed to meet this requirement.

Rashtriya Raksha Dal ( Short form RRD) is a political party, registered in the year 1999, with the Election Commission of India,(ECI) as a national party. So far , this party has been concentrating its efforts in the state of Punjab. Now the party wants its presence established all over India by setting up state, district and block committees . A very good friend of mine, Col M S Krishnamoorthy , age 90 ,a Second World War veteran has been assigned this task.

The general plan is to first establish direct contact with Ex-servicemen of all ranks from all the three services in different parts of the country who are in favour of this approach. After locating a sizable No of volunteers in each state, they will be requested to form the formal state & district committees by election from among themselves.

If you are interested in joining in this noble endeavour please inform Col Moorthy direct ( E-MAIL ID: or, Tele No 09313281695) with a copy to me, as I am also involved in this programme. Even if you are unable to directly participate please pass this on to persons known to you who may have the inclination & time to join in this effort.

I feel strongly that the voice of the Ex- Servicemen will be heard and acted upon only if we establish the ballot box route, fight elections ,enter the law making bodies at different levels and make people aware of the change needed , from the floor of Vidhan Sabhas , Lok Sabha Etc.

We are entering this field with full awareness that it will take many years of effort to achieve all that we want to , but a beginning has to be made sometime and progressed step by step.
Yours sincerely,
Col Satish Dewan
Subject: Candidates' Profiles
Date: Saturday, 18 April, 2009, 9:01 PM

National Election Watch Andhra Pradesh has done some good work by analysing affidavits from candidates for Lok Sabha and Assembly for Phase 1.
A Press Release of Assembly candidates is attached. Please read.
You may also check out details of individual candidates, including very detailed candidate profiles, at There is a wealth of info awaiting you.
Please tell all you know to check out this site.
Date: Sunday, 19 April, 2009, 7:51 PM
Dear friends/brothers in arms,

You are all aware as to how disgusted people of the country are with the present lot of politicians whose genuine patriotism is questionable . Therefore , people are looking for a new brand of experienced well educated & truly patriotic young men & women to come forward to bring about the change the people are looking for. The public seem to have more confidence in the Defence personnel. Therefore a party composed of defence service personnel & intellectuals has been formed to meet this requirement.

Rashtriya Raksha Dal ( Short form RRD) is a political party, registered in the year 1999, with the Election Commission of India,(ECI) as a national party. So far , this party has been concentrating its efforts in the state of Punjab. Now the party wants its presence established all over India by setting up state, district and block committees . A very good friend of mine, Col M S Krishnamoorthy , age 90 ,a Second World War veteran has been assigned this task.

The general plan is to first establish direct contact with Ex-servicemen of all ranks from all the three services in different parts of the country who are in favour of this approach. After locating a sizable No of volunteers in each state, they will be requested to form the formal state & district committees by election from among themselves.

If you are interested in joining in this noble endeavour please inform Col Moorthy direct ( E-MAIL ID: or, Tele No 09313281695) with a copy to me, as I am also involved in this programme. Even if you are unable to directly participate please pass this on to persons known to you who may have the inclination & time to join in this effort.

I feel strongly that the voice of the Ex- Servicemen will be heard and acted upon only if we establish the ballot box route, fight elections ,enter the law making bodies at different levels and make people aware of the change needed , from the floor of Vidhan Sabhas , Lok Sabha Etc.

We are entering this field with full awareness that it will take many years of effort to achieve all that we want to , but a beginning has to be made sometime and progressed step by step.
Yours sincerely,
Col Satish Dewan