From: Ravinder Gujral [mailto:ravigujral@hotmail.com]
Sent: 12 December 2009 09:35
To: Kamboj Chander
Subject: PENSION OF PRE 2006 MAJORS AND EQUIVALENTS - EMAIL 822/2009 - 12 DEC 09 (A to G)
Dear Sir,
It is indeed very kind of you for giving thought to the pension of a Major.
As per the new Army Instruction of 2004, any offr who completes 13 years of srvice and has passed the part D exam, he is to be promoted to the rank of a Lt Col. Thus promotion to the rank of a Lt Col now is time scale. As a matter of fact, all Major's who have retired and are drawing pension fulfill both the critereas of length of service and having passed the promotion examination. Thus they should be equated with a Lt Col. As per the same Army Instruction, an offr who completes 6 years service is to be promoted to the rank of a Major. It would be seen that the retired Majors holding all the qualifications of a Lt Col and also having more then 20 years of service to their credit are being equated with Majors of 6 years service We are planning to challenge this in the Court of Law. Those willing to join in the band wagon are welcome to contact the under-signed.
With best regards
Major RS Gujral
# 2528, Sector 35-C,
Chandigarh 160 022
Mob No. 09417474759, 09417689052
Tele No. 0172-5019931, 5002932
Wednesday, December 16, 2009
Sunday, November 29, 2009
Mail from Brig shyam
29 Nov 09.
Dear Brigadier Shyam Prasad,
Reference your email below.
Thank you for your kind offer.
I am forwarding your email to the Governing Body of IESM to note down your name and request you to help IESM in a particular field of your choice, where IESM needs help.
Also, help us in enrolling members for IESM, in particular JCOs, NCOs, ORs widows. There is no fee for widows.
The membership form and guidelines for becoming member of IESM are given in the attachment to this email.
I wil also request you to kindly get in touch with the Secy Gen of IESM - Gp Capt VK Gandhi - 09810541222, 0120-2519440 , 4313951.
Very fond regards.
Chander.
Copy to - Governing Body IESM - Gp Capt Vinod Gandhi is requested to kindly get in touch with Brig Shyam Prasad, a senior veteran from Signals. - shyam_1938@yahoo.com .
------
From: shyam Prasad [mailto:shyam_1938@yahoo.com]
Sent: 29 November 2009 07:59
To: Kamboj Chander
Subject: Re: ARE YOU DOING ENOUGH FOR THE SUCCESS OF ALL INDIA ESM MOVEMENT - "REPORT MY SIGNAL" - EMAIL 802/2009 - 28 NOV 09 (H to Z)
Chander Kamboj
Thanks for the email
I agree with all the points mentioned in the email
Please let me know how I can help
S Prasad
Dear Brigadier Shyam Prasad,
Reference your email below.
Thank you for your kind offer.
I am forwarding your email to the Governing Body of IESM to note down your name and request you to help IESM in a particular field of your choice, where IESM needs help.
Also, help us in enrolling members for IESM, in particular JCOs, NCOs, ORs widows. There is no fee for widows.
The membership form and guidelines for becoming member of IESM are given in the attachment to this email.
I wil also request you to kindly get in touch with the Secy Gen of IESM - Gp Capt VK Gandhi - 09810541222, 0120-2519440 , 4313951.
Very fond regards.
Chander.
Copy to - Governing Body IESM - Gp Capt Vinod Gandhi is requested to kindly get in touch with Brig Shyam Prasad, a senior veteran from Signals. - shyam_1938@yahoo.com .
------
From: shyam Prasad [mailto:shyam_1938@yahoo.com]
Sent: 29 November 2009 07:59
To: Kamboj Chander
Subject: Re: ARE YOU DOING ENOUGH FOR THE SUCCESS OF ALL INDIA ESM MOVEMENT - "REPORT MY SIGNAL" - EMAIL 802/2009 - 28 NOV 09 (H to Z)
Chander Kamboj
Thanks for the email
I agree with all the points mentioned in the email
Please let me know how I can help
S Prasad
REMOVAL OF 33 YEARS STIPULATION
Dear Friends,
Please visit the URL given below and read the letter issued by MoD, Dept of ESW, on 30 OCT 2009. This letter waives off the the stipulation of 33 years of service for all defence officer pensioners who retired after 1.1.2006. The Govt will now calculate their pension @ 50% of the last emoluments drawn or the average of last ten months', whichever is more beneficial to the individual.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/22656080/Removal-of-33-Yrs-Stipulation
All of us who retired before 1.1.2006, should ask for the same yardstick to be applied to our cases as well. This will ensure equitable justice.
This will mean that all of us with 20 yrs of QS will become entitled to the pension currently being given for 33 years of weighted service. That pension is currently based on the minimum reckonable emoluments under the existing pay band for those who are still in service.
I now request all ESM organisations to take up this point and ask the govt to implement this yardstick. When accepted, we all with 20 years or more of QS will stand to gain substantially. I do not have the figures for all the ranks but for Lt Cols and equivalent, the pension will be Rs 25,700 pm, both for S and TS categories. Their current entitlement at 20 yrs of QS is Rs 21,028 and 19,470 respectively.
Pension cell of IESM may like to go into it and guide us all please.
We all should treat this demand as a step towards our ultimate goal of OROP.
Regards.................K K Punchhi
Please visit the URL given below and read the letter issued by MoD, Dept of ESW, on 30 OCT 2009. This letter waives off the the stipulation of 33 years of service for all defence officer pensioners who retired after 1.1.2006. The Govt will now calculate their pension @ 50% of the last emoluments drawn or the average of last ten months', whichever is more beneficial to the individual.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/22656080/Removal-of-33-Yrs-Stipulation
All of us who retired before 1.1.2006, should ask for the same yardstick to be applied to our cases as well. This will ensure equitable justice.
This will mean that all of us with 20 yrs of QS will become entitled to the pension currently being given for 33 years of weighted service. That pension is currently based on the minimum reckonable emoluments under the existing pay band for those who are still in service.
I now request all ESM organisations to take up this point and ask the govt to implement this yardstick. When accepted, we all with 20 years or more of QS will stand to gain substantially. I do not have the figures for all the ranks but for Lt Cols and equivalent, the pension will be Rs 25,700 pm, both for S and TS categories. Their current entitlement at 20 yrs of QS is Rs 21,028 and 19,470 respectively.
Pension cell of IESM may like to go into it and guide us all please.
We all should treat this demand as a step towards our ultimate goal of OROP.
Regards.................K K Punchhi
Views of Col Raman for AGM on 13 Dec 2009
Dear Veterans,
The Sanjha Morcha seems to be up in Arms, not only against the IESM but also against one of its own founders. What may hurt our Movement is the litigation filed by our erst while Gen Secy, Col K Bharadwaj. The litigation by itself is not going to be the cause for worry, but the unnecessary expenditure in Lawyers fees & connected waste of time & energy. The hard earned money of the ESM of which these disgruntled Veterans were moaning about, is going to be frittered away to the Judiciary , the Lawyers, stationery & postage.
I request you all to consider the following actions to Safe Guard the interest of the IESM, as an Organisation, during the ensuing AGM:-
1. Table a Motion of Confidence, if the Vote of Confidence is not possible due to the strength of members present. Please send the printed version of the Motion to all the members of the IESM as on date, for their signatures & return on or before 12 Dec 2009. A specimen of the Motion is given below:-
" I, (No Rank Name & Membership No) who is a Life member of the Indian Ex Servicemen Movement (IESM) affirm my Faith and Confidence / do not have faith and confidence, in the present Office Bearers of the Association."
Signature of the Member, Date & Place"
To expedite the process, a suitably worded Motion can be sent by email for the Members to either take a print out or write or type out the same, sign & return by the due date.
Take care to include this item in the Agenda for the AGM.
2. Pass a Resolution to fix the date of AGM to Elect Office Bearers in the Year 2010. Include this item also in the Agenda for the AGM on 13 Dec 09.
3. Pass a Resolution for taking disciplinary action against the members who have been found to carry on anti IESM activities.
Best Wishes,
Veteran Raman
The Sanjha Morcha seems to be up in Arms, not only against the IESM but also against one of its own founders. What may hurt our Movement is the litigation filed by our erst while Gen Secy, Col K Bharadwaj. The litigation by itself is not going to be the cause for worry, but the unnecessary expenditure in Lawyers fees & connected waste of time & energy. The hard earned money of the ESM of which these disgruntled Veterans were moaning about, is going to be frittered away to the Judiciary , the Lawyers, stationery & postage.
I request you all to consider the following actions to Safe Guard the interest of the IESM, as an Organisation, during the ensuing AGM:-
1. Table a Motion of Confidence, if the Vote of Confidence is not possible due to the strength of members present. Please send the printed version of the Motion to all the members of the IESM as on date, for their signatures & return on or before 12 Dec 2009. A specimen of the Motion is given below:-
" I, (No Rank Name & Membership No) who is a Life member of the Indian Ex Servicemen Movement (IESM) affirm my Faith and Confidence / do not have faith and confidence, in the present Office Bearers of the Association."
Signature of the Member, Date & Place"
To expedite the process, a suitably worded Motion can be sent by email for the Members to either take a print out or write or type out the same, sign & return by the due date.
Take care to include this item in the Agenda for the AGM.
2. Pass a Resolution to fix the date of AGM to Elect Office Bearers in the Year 2010. Include this item also in the Agenda for the AGM on 13 Dec 09.
3. Pass a Resolution for taking disciplinary action against the members who have been found to carry on anti IESM activities.
Best Wishes,
Veteran Raman
Views of Cdr Pathak on Disgrunted ESM
Dear Sir
I fully agree with Veteran Raman.In fact this mail of mine may be taken as accepting the resolution.
We must also take suitable disciplinary action against the individual.
More important is i think to find out if these individuals are being used by vested interest to undermine the movement.
Brgds
R W Pathak
Cdr Ravindra Waman Pathak I.N.(Retd)
Member and Coordinator IESM Pension Cell
(Mobile 919822329340)
and
Warsha R Pathak(Mobile 919822329340
I fully agree with Veteran Raman.In fact this mail of mine may be taken as accepting the resolution.
We must also take suitable disciplinary action against the individual.
More important is i think to find out if these individuals are being used by vested interest to undermine the movement.
Brgds
R W Pathak
Cdr Ravindra Waman Pathak I.N.(Retd)
Member and Coordinator IESM Pension Cell
(Mobile 919822329340)
and
Warsha R Pathak(Mobile 919822329340
Mail from Cdr Rajinder Giani
From: Rajinder Giani [mailto:gianisatgoa@gmail.com]
Sent: 29 November 2009 18:05
To: Kamboj Chander
Subject: Re: ARE YOU DOING ENOUGH FOR THE SUCCESS OF ALL INDIA ESM MOVEMENT - "REPORT MY SIGNAL" - EMAIL 802/2009 - 28 NOV 09 (A to G)
Dear Sir,
After reading your emails I became a member of IESM by depositing Rs 500 in the IESM account on 23 Nov and registering online (though I have yet to receive any acknpwledgement).
Sir, after taking premature retirement from the Navy in 1999, I worked as a Master in the merchant navy for some time. Nowadays, I spend half my time in Goa (Vasco da Gama, where I am settled) and half the time in Kharghar, Navi Mumbai (helping out my twin daughters who are working there). Sir, I have a lot of spare time and access to the net at both places. I would like to volunteer and help in any capacity whatsoever, especially with regrads to pension, ECHS and Canteen.
With warm regards,
Cdr Rajinder Giani (retd)
F-2, Block II, Salkar Residency, E-1102, Lily Bldg, Jalvayu Vihar Phase I
Adarsh Nagar ,Chicalim Sector 20, Kharghar
Goa 403 711 Navi Mumbai
Sent: 29 November 2009 18:05
To: Kamboj Chander
Subject: Re: ARE YOU DOING ENOUGH FOR THE SUCCESS OF ALL INDIA ESM MOVEMENT - "REPORT MY SIGNAL" - EMAIL 802/2009 - 28 NOV 09 (A to G)
Dear Sir,
After reading your emails I became a member of IESM by depositing Rs 500 in the IESM account on 23 Nov and registering online (though I have yet to receive any acknpwledgement).
Sir, after taking premature retirement from the Navy in 1999, I worked as a Master in the merchant navy for some time. Nowadays, I spend half my time in Goa (Vasco da Gama, where I am settled) and half the time in Kharghar, Navi Mumbai (helping out my twin daughters who are working there). Sir, I have a lot of spare time and access to the net at both places. I would like to volunteer and help in any capacity whatsoever, especially with regrads to pension, ECHS and Canteen.
With warm regards,
Cdr Rajinder Giani (retd)
F-2, Block II, Salkar Residency, E-1102, Lily Bldg, Jalvayu Vihar Phase I
Adarsh Nagar ,Chicalim Sector 20, Kharghar
Goa 403 711 Navi Mumbai
Monday, November 23, 2009
NAVY'S FIRST COMBATANTS TO TAKE TO THE SKIES by Cdr KK Punchhi
From: Krishan K Punchhi kkpunchhi@yahoo.ca
To: DELETED
Cc: Chander Kamboj kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Sent: Sun, 22 November, 2009 3:04:21 AM
Subject: NAVY'S FIRST COMBATANTS TO TAKE TO THE SKIES
(http://www.hinduonnet.com/2009/11/18/stories/2009111855341800.htm)
Navy’s first women combatants
to take to the skies
S. Anandan
Sub-Lieutenants Ambica Hooda, Seema Rani Sharma set to create history
KOCHI: Putting an end to debates over the induction of women into combat roles in the Armed Forces, the Navy on Friday will script history when it enlists two women officers as observers on board its fleet of maritime patrol aircraft (MPA).
With the coveted ‘wings’ conferred on them at a passing-out ceremony here, Sub-Lieutenants Ambica Hooda and Seema Rani Sharma, both 22, will become the first women airborne tacticians of the Navy, which has taken the lead in according equal opportunities by starting entry for women in the observer cadre as Short Service Commissioned Officers.
“Having commendably completed their training, the officers will now be posted to the Dornier maritime reconnaissance squadrons as Electronic Warfare Sensor Officers. And, on a maritime patrol aircraft, observers carry out operation of radar, electronic sensor systems, electronic warfare systems, anti-submarine warfare systems, maritime air operations for independent search and tracking, coordination with the Air Force, and the like,” said Commander P.V.G.K. Nambiar, Officer-in-Charge of the Observer School in INS Garuda, who has overseen the 27-week flying training taken by the women officers, part of a mixed batch of four.
“Their training on the avionics fitted on the Dorniers will stand them in good stead when they get converted to the IL-38 and the TU-142 at a later stage, where they will be required to carry out tactical operation of weapons,” said Commander Sridhar Warrier, Chief Instructor of the Observer School.
The training lasted 16 months, starting with a six-month orientation course at the Naval Academy. The officers also got attached to professional schools INS Shivaji in Lonavla, INS Hamla in Mumbai, and INS Satavahana in Visakhapatnam prior to their final training at the Observer School.
“During the course, we flew 17 sorties, each of three-hour duration,” Sub-Lt. Seema, hailing from Aligarh in Uttar Pradesh, told The Hindu. Her father served in the Navy and her brothers are currently doing so. “I am feeling proud that I’ve set the course for young women to follow,” she said of her choice.
Sub-Lt. Ambica, from Rohtak in Haryana, didn’t have a clue when she filled up the application form after graduation that she would go down in history as one of the first two women combatants in the Navy. Her father served in the Army, but an uncle in the Navy encouraged her to strive for a different role. Still excited about their first Dornier sortie, she says a gender-sensitive infrastructure had already fallen in place when their training commenced. “I am ready to handle any role I am asked to perform,” she said.
On Monday, the duo flew their 18th sortie under the watchful eyes of a Qualified Navigation Instructor from the Aircats (Aircrew Categorisation and Standardisation Board), the nodal agency in naval aviation to test the degree of professionalism of the air crew.
As Sub-Lts. Seema and Ambica emerged from the aircraft after their three-and-a-half hour standardisation procedure, during which they flew over the southern peninsula, a delighted Commander Satish Kumar, their Aircats examiner, told The Hindu: “They were supposed to take the aircraft from point A to point B and were expected to fix its position at any point in time.. They did way above average.”
---------
To: DELETED
Cc: Chander Kamboj kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Sent: Sun, 22 November, 2009 3:04:21 AM
Subject: NAVY'S FIRST COMBATANTS TO TAKE TO THE SKIES
(http://www.hinduonnet.com/2009/11/18/stories/2009111855341800.htm)
Navy’s first women combatants
to take to the skies
S. Anandan
Sub-Lieutenants Ambica Hooda, Seema Rani Sharma set to create history
KOCHI: Putting an end to debates over the induction of women into combat roles in the Armed Forces, the Navy on Friday will script history when it enlists two women officers as observers on board its fleet of maritime patrol aircraft (MPA).
With the coveted ‘wings’ conferred on them at a passing-out ceremony here, Sub-Lieutenants Ambica Hooda and Seema Rani Sharma, both 22, will become the first women airborne tacticians of the Navy, which has taken the lead in according equal opportunities by starting entry for women in the observer cadre as Short Service Commissioned Officers.
“Having commendably completed their training, the officers will now be posted to the Dornier maritime reconnaissance squadrons as Electronic Warfare Sensor Officers. And, on a maritime patrol aircraft, observers carry out operation of radar, electronic sensor systems, electronic warfare systems, anti-submarine warfare systems, maritime air operations for independent search and tracking, coordination with the Air Force, and the like,” said Commander P.V.G.K. Nambiar, Officer-in-Charge of the Observer School in INS Garuda, who has overseen the 27-week flying training taken by the women officers, part of a mixed batch of four.
“Their training on the avionics fitted on the Dorniers will stand them in good stead when they get converted to the IL-38 and the TU-142 at a later stage, where they will be required to carry out tactical operation of weapons,” said Commander Sridhar Warrier, Chief Instructor of the Observer School.
The training lasted 16 months, starting with a six-month orientation course at the Naval Academy. The officers also got attached to professional schools INS Shivaji in Lonavla, INS Hamla in Mumbai, and INS Satavahana in Visakhapatnam prior to their final training at the Observer School.
“During the course, we flew 17 sorties, each of three-hour duration,” Sub-Lt. Seema, hailing from Aligarh in Uttar Pradesh, told The Hindu. Her father served in the Navy and her brothers are currently doing so. “I am feeling proud that I’ve set the course for young women to follow,” she said of her choice.
Sub-Lt. Ambica, from Rohtak in Haryana, didn’t have a clue when she filled up the application form after graduation that she would go down in history as one of the first two women combatants in the Navy. Her father served in the Army, but an uncle in the Navy encouraged her to strive for a different role. Still excited about their first Dornier sortie, she says a gender-sensitive infrastructure had already fallen in place when their training commenced. “I am ready to handle any role I am asked to perform,” she said.
On Monday, the duo flew their 18th sortie under the watchful eyes of a Qualified Navigation Instructor from the Aircats (Aircrew Categorisation and Standardisation Board), the nodal agency in naval aviation to test the degree of professionalism of the air crew.
As Sub-Lts. Seema and Ambica emerged from the aircraft after their three-and-a-half hour standardisation procedure, during which they flew over the southern peninsula, a delighted Commander Satish Kumar, their Aircats examiner, told The Hindu: “They were supposed to take the aircraft from point A to point B and were expected to fix its position at any point in time.. They did way above average.”
---------
Letter to Times of India by Wg Cdr Subhash kapoor
: subhash kapoor sckaps@yahoo.co.in
Cc: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in; TRUNCATED;
Sent: Sun, 22 November, 2009 1:08:26 PM
Subject: A LETTER TO THE EDITOR THE TIMES OF INDIA
Dear Sir/Madam:
Appended below is a copy of the letter sent to the Editor The Times of India, for your information.
Warm regards.
Veteran SC Kapoor
------
--- On Fri, 20/11/09, subhash kapoor wrote:
From: subhash kapoor sckaps@yahoo.co.in
Subject: A LETTER TO THE EDITOR THE TIMES OF INDIA
To: mytimesmyvoice@timesgroup.com
Cc: militaryveterans@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 20 November, 2009, 9:05 PM
WANTED: INFORMATIVE IMPARTIAL INTERACTIVE INDIAN MEDIA (W:IIIIM)
A LETTER TO THE EDITOR THE TIMES OF INDIA
To:
The Editor
The Times of India
New Delhi
Sir:
We are happy to announce slight improvement, of late, as regards fairness, objectivity and adequacy of the coverage accorded by The Times of India to the news pertaining to the Armed Forces of the country.
Please do keep up this good trend. As a reputed national newspaper under constant scrutiny by its innumerable readers you perhaps have no other viable option on a long-term basis.
As a gesture of abundant goodwill we will not rake up past cases as of now until you choose to reopen old wounds afresh through biased/flawed reporting. Here, may we remind you, Sir, of what was authoritatively stated on behalf of your newspaper some time back: "Our client has always kept the armed forces in high esteem, and has always highlighted the gallantry work of our soldiers with pride. Our client has always respected and saluted the spirit and sacrifice of armed forces for our country." Similar assertions have been made and assurances given repeatedly in the text.
It is never too late to start learning/doing what is in the best interests of the country and its people including your own.
Please do give us a chance to continue respecting you and feeling proud of you as an eminent Editor/citizen of India just as we have for long been privileged to feel for your predecessors in yesteryears.
Warm regards--and good night, Sir.
Sincerely,
SC Kapoor
Wing Commander (retd)
E-145, Sector 21
Noida-201 301
Mob: 0120-2536068
Cc: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in; TRUNCATED;
Sent: Sun, 22 November, 2009 1:08:26 PM
Subject: A LETTER TO THE EDITOR THE TIMES OF INDIA
Dear Sir/Madam:
Appended below is a copy of the letter sent to the Editor The Times of India, for your information.
Warm regards.
Veteran SC Kapoor
------
--- On Fri, 20/11/09, subhash kapoor
From: subhash kapoor sckaps@yahoo.co.in
Subject: A LETTER TO THE EDITOR THE TIMES OF INDIA
To: mytimesmyvoice@timesgroup.com
Cc: militaryveterans@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 20 November, 2009, 9:05 PM
WANTED: INFORMATIVE IMPARTIAL INTERACTIVE INDIAN MEDIA (W:IIIIM)
A LETTER TO THE EDITOR THE TIMES OF INDIA
To:
The Editor
The Times of India
New Delhi
Sir:
We are happy to announce slight improvement, of late, as regards fairness, objectivity and adequacy of the coverage accorded by The Times of India to the news pertaining to the Armed Forces of the country.
Please do keep up this good trend. As a reputed national newspaper under constant scrutiny by its innumerable readers you perhaps have no other viable option on a long-term basis.
As a gesture of abundant goodwill we will not rake up past cases as of now until you choose to reopen old wounds afresh through biased/flawed reporting. Here, may we remind you, Sir, of what was authoritatively stated on behalf of your newspaper some time back: "Our client has always kept the armed forces in high esteem, and has always highlighted the gallantry work of our soldiers with pride. Our client has always respected and saluted the spirit and sacrifice of armed forces for our country." Similar assertions have been made and assurances given repeatedly in the text.
It is never too late to start learning/doing what is in the best interests of the country and its people including your own.
Please do give us a chance to continue respecting you and feeling proud of you as an eminent Editor/citizen of India just as we have for long been privileged to feel for your predecessors in yesteryears.
Warm regards--and good night, Sir.
Sincerely,
SC Kapoor
Wing Commander (retd)
E-145, Sector 21
Noida-201 301
Mob: 0120-2536068
Politicians all over the world..??
A VERY INTERESTING LETTER INDEED.
WHAT IS STATED MAY APPLY
TO POLITICIANS ALL OVER THE WORLD
Read the letter sent to Sen. Barbara Boxer from an Alaskan Airlines pilot below.
Many of us witnessed the arrogance of Barbara Boxer on June 18, 2009 as she admonished Brigadier General Michael Walsh because he addressed her
as "ma'am" and not "Senator" before a Senate hearing.
This letter is from a National Guard aviator and Captain for Alaska Airlines named Jim Hill. I wonder what he would have said if he were really angry. Long fly Alaska !!!!!
------
Babs:
You were so right on when you scolded the general on TV for using the
term, "ma'am," instead of "Senator". After all, in the military, "ma'am" is a term of respect when addressing a female of superior rank or position. The general was totally wrong. You are not a person of superior rank or position. You are a member of one of the world's most corrupt organizations, the U.S. Senate, equaled only by the U.S. House of Representatives.
Congress is a cesspool of liars, thieves, inside traders, traitors, drunks (one who killed a staffer, yet is still revered), criminals, and other low level swine who, as individuals (not all, but many), will do anything to enhance their lives, fortunes and power, all at the expense of the People of the United States and its Constitution, in order to be continually re-elected. Many democrats even want American troops killed by releasing photographs. How many of you could honestly say, "We pledge our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor"? None? One?
Two?
Your reaction to the general shows several things. First is your abysmal ignorance of all things military. Your treatment of the general shows you to be an elitist of the worst kind. When the general entered the military (as most of us who served) he wrote the government a blank check, offering his life to protect your derriere, now safely and comfortably ensconced in a 20 thousand dollar leather chair, paid for by the general's taxes. You repaid him for this by humiliating him in front of millions.
Second is your puerile character, lack of sophistication, and arrogance which borders on the hubristic. This display of brattish behavior shows you to be a virago, termagant, harridan, nag, scold or shrew, unfit for your position, regardless of the support of the unwashed, uneducated masses who have made California into the laughing stock of the nation.
What I am writing, are the same thoughts countless millions of Americans have toward Congress, but who lack the energy, ability or time to convey them. Regardless of their thoughts, most realize that politicians are pretty much the same, and will vote for the one who will bring home the most bacon, even if they do consider how corrupt that person is. Lord Acton (1834 - 1902) so aptly charged, "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.." Unbeknownst to you and your colleagues, "Mr. Power" has had his way with all of you, and we are all the worse for it.
(The above article has been received by me through large number of emails – Chander Kamboj)
WHAT IS STATED MAY APPLY
TO POLITICIANS ALL OVER THE WORLD
Read the letter sent to Sen. Barbara Boxer from an Alaskan Airlines pilot below.
Many of us witnessed the arrogance of Barbara Boxer on June 18, 2009 as she admonished Brigadier General Michael Walsh because he addressed her
as "ma'am" and not "Senator" before a Senate hearing.
This letter is from a National Guard aviator and Captain for Alaska Airlines named Jim Hill. I wonder what he would have said if he were really angry. Long fly Alaska !!!!!
------
Babs:
You were so right on when you scolded the general on TV for using the
term, "ma'am," instead of "Senator". After all, in the military, "ma'am" is a term of respect when addressing a female of superior rank or position. The general was totally wrong. You are not a person of superior rank or position. You are a member of one of the world's most corrupt organizations, the U.S. Senate, equaled only by the U.S. House of Representatives.
Congress is a cesspool of liars, thieves, inside traders, traitors, drunks (one who killed a staffer, yet is still revered), criminals, and other low level swine who, as individuals (not all, but many), will do anything to enhance their lives, fortunes and power, all at the expense of the People of the United States and its Constitution, in order to be continually re-elected. Many democrats even want American troops killed by releasing photographs. How many of you could honestly say, "We pledge our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor"? None? One?
Two?
Your reaction to the general shows several things. First is your abysmal ignorance of all things military. Your treatment of the general shows you to be an elitist of the worst kind. When the general entered the military (as most of us who served) he wrote the government a blank check, offering his life to protect your derriere, now safely and comfortably ensconced in a 20 thousand dollar leather chair, paid for by the general's taxes. You repaid him for this by humiliating him in front of millions.
Second is your puerile character, lack of sophistication, and arrogance which borders on the hubristic. This display of brattish behavior shows you to be a virago, termagant, harridan, nag, scold or shrew, unfit for your position, regardless of the support of the unwashed, uneducated masses who have made California into the laughing stock of the nation.
What I am writing, are the same thoughts countless millions of Americans have toward Congress, but who lack the energy, ability or time to convey them. Regardless of their thoughts, most realize that politicians are pretty much the same, and will vote for the one who will bring home the most bacon, even if they do consider how corrupt that person is. Lord Acton (1834 - 1902) so aptly charged, "Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.." Unbeknownst to you and your colleagues, "Mr. Power" has had his way with all of you, and we are all the worse for it.
(The above article has been received by me through large number of emails – Chander Kamboj)
Letter to editor Tribune by Lt Gen Harbhajan Singh
--- On Sat, 11/21/09, Harbhajan Singh wrote:
Dear Mr Dua, (Editor in Chief, the Tribune, India)
Our felicitations on your being nominated to the Rajya Sabha. You deserve the honor for the journalistic and other services that you have rendered to the Nation.
Now that you are where policies are made and bills passed, it would be appreciated if you kindly take up various issues relating to National Security, pays and perks of Indian Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen who day in and day out, since Independence have been deployed along our inhospitable borders, have fought so many wars and died in thousands defending the integrity of the Nation.
Please do read the write up below about American Armed Forces. Most of what is written amply applies to Indian Armed Forces as well.
Please draw your own conclusions and do the best you can for the Indian serving and retired Military personnel.
Best wishes.
Harbhajan Singh
Lt Gen (Retd) PVSM
Former Signal Officer-in-Chief
Chandigarh
9814801811
Dear Mr Dua, (Editor in Chief, the Tribune, India)
Our felicitations on your being nominated to the Rajya Sabha. You deserve the honor for the journalistic and other services that you have rendered to the Nation.
Now that you are where policies are made and bills passed, it would be appreciated if you kindly take up various issues relating to National Security, pays and perks of Indian Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen who day in and day out, since Independence have been deployed along our inhospitable borders, have fought so many wars and died in thousands defending the integrity of the Nation.
Please do read the write up below about American Armed Forces. Most of what is written amply applies to Indian Armed Forces as well.
Please draw your own conclusions and do the best you can for the Indian serving and retired Military personnel.
Best wishes.
Harbhajan Singh
Lt Gen (Retd) PVSM
Former Signal Officer-in-Chief
Chandigarh
9814801811
DELIVERY OF OPEN LETTER IESM to Ms Sushma Swaraj
From: maqbool niazi macniazi@yahoo.co.in
To: REPORT MY SIGNAL (C S Kamboj) kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Cc: Maj Gen Coomar Ashok coomar.ashok@gmail.com ; Kumar Col sukumar_col@rediffmail.com
Sent: Sun, 22 November, 2009 5:38:58 PM
Subject: DELIVERY OF OPEN LETTER IESM
Dear Brigadier.
The open letter to Hon`ble MPs from Lt. Gen.(Retd) Raj Kadyan PVSM,AVSM,VSM, Chairman IESM, Has been delivered to Ms. Sushma Swaraj MP Sihore and Deputy leader of Opposition Lok Sabha under the covering letter of Bhopal ExServices League, Ex Servicemen League Sihore and Ex DefenceService Officers Association Central India Under the signature of its President Maj Gen.(Retd) Ashok Coomar on Nov 21, 2009.
This is for your information please.
(Col MAK Niazi, Bhopal)
To: REPORT MY SIGNAL (C S Kamboj) kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Cc: Maj Gen Coomar Ashok coomar.ashok@gmail.com ; Kumar Col sukumar_col@rediffmail.com
Sent: Sun, 22 November, 2009 5:38:58 PM
Subject: DELIVERY OF OPEN LETTER IESM
Dear Brigadier.
The open letter to Hon`ble MPs from Lt. Gen.(Retd) Raj Kadyan PVSM,AVSM,VSM, Chairman IESM, Has been delivered to Ms. Sushma Swaraj MP Sihore and Deputy leader of Opposition Lok Sabha under the covering letter of Bhopal ExServices League, Ex Servicemen League Sihore and Ex DefenceService Officers Association Central India Under the signature of its President Maj Gen.(Retd) Ashok Coomar on Nov 21, 2009.
This is for your information please.
(Col MAK Niazi, Bhopal)
Friday, November 20, 2009
Role of services for India’s independence by Brig G Natarajan
Role of services for India’s independence
from Brig(retd) G natarajan, Signals
http://us.asiancorrespondent.com/atanu-dey-blog/2005/08/23/netajis-ghost-the-freedom-struggle
When B.P. Chakravarti was acting as Governor of West Bengal, Lord Attlee visited India and stayed as his guest for three days at the Raj Bhavan. Chakravarti asked Attlee about the real grounds for granting Independence to India. Specifically, his question was, when the Quit India movement lay in ruins years before 1947, what was the need for the British to leave in such a hurry. Attlee’s response is most illuminating and important for history. Here is the Governor’s account of what Attlee told him:
“In reply Attlee cited several reasons, the most important were the activities of Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose which weakened the very foundation of the attachment of the Indian land and naval forces to the British Government. Towards the end, I asked Lord Attlee about the extent to which the British decision to quit India was influenced by Gandhi’s activities. On hearing this question Attlee’s lips widened in a smile of disdain and he uttered, slowly, putting emphasis on each single letter mi-ni-mal.”
This ‘unimpeachable’ truth will come as a shock to most Indians brought up to believe that the Congress movement driven by the ’spiritual force’ of Mahatma Gandhi forced the British to leave India.
But both the evidence and the logic of history are against this beautiful but childish fantasy; it was the fear of mutiny by the Indian armed forces-and not any ’spiritual force’- that forced the issue of freedom. The British saw that the sooner they left India the better for themselves, for, at the end of the war, India had some three million men under arms. Majumdar had reached the same conclusion years earlier, as far back as 1948 as he records. The most dramatic event after the end of World War II was the INA Trials at the Red Fort—not any movement by Gandhi or Nehru. This led directly to the mutiny of the naval ratings, which, more than anything, helped the British make up their minds to leave India in a hurry. They sensed that it was only a matter of time before the spirit spread to other sections of the armed forces and the rest of the Government. None of this would have happened without Subhas Bose and the INA.
The crucial point to note is that thanks to Subhas Bose’s activities and the INA, the Armed Forces began to see themselves as defenders of India rather than upholders of the British Empire. This, more than anything else, was what led to India’s freedom. This is also the reason why the British Empire disappeared from the face of the earth within an astonishingly short space of twenty years. Indian soldiers, who were the main prop of the Empire, were no longer willing to fight to hold the Empire together.
---------------
news.com/2008/10/03/atlee-gandhis-role-in-uk-decision-to-leave-india-was-minimal/
2 “..Apart from revisionist historians, it was none other than Lord Clement Atlee himself, the British Prime Minister responsible for conceding independence to India, who gave a shattering blow to the myth sought to be perpetuated by court historians, that Gandhi and his movement had led the country to freedom. Chief Justice P.B. Chakrabarty of Calcutta High Court, who had also served as the acting Governor of West Bengal in India, disclosed the following in a letter addressed to the publisher of Dr. R.C. Majumdar’s book A History of Bengal. The Chief Justice wrote: ‘ My direct question to him (Atlee) was that since Gandhi’s “Quit India” movement had tapered off quite some time ago and in 1947 no such new compelling situation had arisen that would necessitate a hasty British departure, why did they have to leave? In his reply Atlee cited several reasons, the principal among them being the erosion of loyalty to the British Crown among the Indian army and navy personnel as a result of the military activities of Netaji [Bose]. Toward the end of our discussion I asked Atlee what was the extent of Gandhi’s influence upon the British decision to quit India. Hearing this question, Atlee’s lips became twisted in a sarcastic smile as he slowly chewed out the word, “m-i-n-i-m-a-l!” ” Subhas Chandra Bose, the Indian National Army, and the War of India’s Liberation – Ranjan Borra, Journal of Historical Review, no. 3, 4 (Winter 1982)
--------
THE END
from Brig(retd) G natarajan, Signals
http://us.asiancorrespondent.com/atanu-dey-blog/2005/08/23/netajis-ghost-the-freedom-struggle
When B.P. Chakravarti was acting as Governor of West Bengal, Lord Attlee visited India and stayed as his guest for three days at the Raj Bhavan. Chakravarti asked Attlee about the real grounds for granting Independence to India. Specifically, his question was, when the Quit India movement lay in ruins years before 1947, what was the need for the British to leave in such a hurry. Attlee’s response is most illuminating and important for history. Here is the Governor’s account of what Attlee told him:
“In reply Attlee cited several reasons, the most important were the activities of Netaji Subhas Chandra Bose which weakened the very foundation of the attachment of the Indian land and naval forces to the British Government. Towards the end, I asked Lord Attlee about the extent to which the British decision to quit India was influenced by Gandhi’s activities. On hearing this question Attlee’s lips widened in a smile of disdain and he uttered, slowly, putting emphasis on each single letter mi-ni-mal.”
This ‘unimpeachable’ truth will come as a shock to most Indians brought up to believe that the Congress movement driven by the ’spiritual force’ of Mahatma Gandhi forced the British to leave India.
But both the evidence and the logic of history are against this beautiful but childish fantasy; it was the fear of mutiny by the Indian armed forces-and not any ’spiritual force’- that forced the issue of freedom. The British saw that the sooner they left India the better for themselves, for, at the end of the war, India had some three million men under arms. Majumdar had reached the same conclusion years earlier, as far back as 1948 as he records. The most dramatic event after the end of World War II was the INA Trials at the Red Fort—not any movement by Gandhi or Nehru. This led directly to the mutiny of the naval ratings, which, more than anything, helped the British make up their minds to leave India in a hurry. They sensed that it was only a matter of time before the spirit spread to other sections of the armed forces and the rest of the Government. None of this would have happened without Subhas Bose and the INA.
The crucial point to note is that thanks to Subhas Bose’s activities and the INA, the Armed Forces began to see themselves as defenders of India rather than upholders of the British Empire. This, more than anything else, was what led to India’s freedom. This is also the reason why the British Empire disappeared from the face of the earth within an astonishingly short space of twenty years. Indian soldiers, who were the main prop of the Empire, were no longer willing to fight to hold the Empire together.
---------------
news.com/2008/10/03/atlee-gandhis-role-in-uk-decision-to-leave-india-was-minimal/
2 “..Apart from revisionist historians, it was none other than Lord Clement Atlee himself, the British Prime Minister responsible for conceding independence to India, who gave a shattering blow to the myth sought to be perpetuated by court historians, that Gandhi and his movement had led the country to freedom. Chief Justice P.B. Chakrabarty of Calcutta High Court, who had also served as the acting Governor of West Bengal in India, disclosed the following in a letter addressed to the publisher of Dr. R.C. Majumdar’s book A History of Bengal. The Chief Justice wrote: ‘ My direct question to him (Atlee) was that since Gandhi’s “Quit India” movement had tapered off quite some time ago and in 1947 no such new compelling situation had arisen that would necessitate a hasty British departure, why did they have to leave? In his reply Atlee cited several reasons, the principal among them being the erosion of loyalty to the British Crown among the Indian army and navy personnel as a result of the military activities of Netaji [Bose]. Toward the end of our discussion I asked Atlee what was the extent of Gandhi’s influence upon the British decision to quit India. Hearing this question, Atlee’s lips became twisted in a sarcastic smile as he slowly chewed out the word, “m-i-n-i-m-a-l!” ” Subhas Chandra Bose, the Indian National Army, and the War of India’s Liberation – Ranjan Borra, Journal of Historical Review, no. 3, 4 (Winter 1982)
--------
THE END
Thursday, November 19, 2009
Monuments aglore by Veteran Chaitanya Prakash
From: Chaitanya [mailto:chait_any@yahoo.com]
Sent: 19 November 2009 13:19
To: Kamboj Chander
Subject: Re: LET'S SALUTE OUR BAND OF BROTHERS - "REPORT MY SIGNAL" - EMAIL 778/2009 - 17 NOV 09 (A to G)
for those who lament about lack of memorials in India, have to only look towards state of UP- why we have hundreds of statues of someone called mayawati and her mentors - thousands of crore rupees have been spent on erecting these "memorials" in stone!
with our value system and priorities, as they stand, this is what we deserve and get.
as regards some of us cribbing about what pension and perks people in other walks of life/professions/service get and then want to compare them with soldiers my humble request is to understand that NO ONE GIVES OTHERS ANYTHING. IT IS THE ABILITY AND POWER TO TAKE WHAT YOU CAN. IF YOU HAVE THE POWERS OR THE CLOUT OR THE ABILITY TO HOLD THE COUNTRY TO RANSOM YOU CAN "TAKE" WHAT YOU WANT. NO ONE GIVES IT TO YOU UNLESS YOU TAKE IT YOURSELF.
until we the soldier understand this simple fact of life we will keep striving, begging, pleading and
living in fools paradise.
best regards
chaitanya prakash
Sent: 19 November 2009 13:19
To: Kamboj Chander
Subject: Re: LET'S SALUTE OUR BAND OF BROTHERS - "REPORT MY SIGNAL" - EMAIL 778/2009 - 17 NOV 09 (A to G)
for those who lament about lack of memorials in India, have to only look towards state of UP- why we have hundreds of statues of someone called mayawati and her mentors - thousands of crore rupees have been spent on erecting these "memorials" in stone!
with our value system and priorities, as they stand, this is what we deserve and get.
as regards some of us cribbing about what pension and perks people in other walks of life/professions/service get and then want to compare them with soldiers my humble request is to understand that NO ONE GIVES OTHERS ANYTHING. IT IS THE ABILITY AND POWER TO TAKE WHAT YOU CAN. IF YOU HAVE THE POWERS OR THE CLOUT OR THE ABILITY TO HOLD THE COUNTRY TO RANSOM YOU CAN "TAKE" WHAT YOU WANT. NO ONE GIVES IT TO YOU UNLESS YOU TAKE IT YOURSELF.
until we the soldier understand this simple fact of life we will keep striving, begging, pleading and
living in fools paradise.
best regards
chaitanya prakash
Monday, November 16, 2009
Views of Cmde Brijesh on Draft Direct Tax Code
From: Brijesh brijesh.gupta@gmail.com
To: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Sent: Fri, 13 November, 2009 6:06:21 PM
Subject: Draft Direct Tax Code
Dear Brig Kamboj,
The Draft Direct Tax Code, which will replace the present IT Act 1961 upon enactment, has been placed in public domain for discussion. The code has a number of provisions which if enacted without amendment, may take away some of the benefits currently available to the veterans. The provisions ,as currently drafted, may curtail the list of gallantry awards entitled to IT benefits as also the benefit for persons with disability pension. I have not seen any discussion in the IESM on these important issues that may hit the beneficiaries from 01 Apr 11, when the new code kicks in.
My suggestion to IESM therefore is to consider setting of a dedicated but broad based group consisting of veterans with experience in law, pay and allowances, gallantry award winners and persons in receipt of disability pension to examine the draft code and propose amendments. Once the amendments have generally been agreed to, then these could be forwarded to members of the mailing list for forwarding to appropriate agency in the Government for consideration.
It is my understanding that the proposed amendments will be examined by a committee before the draft is finalised and tabled in parliament for approval.
regards,
Brijesh,
Cmde(retd)
(Cmde Brijesh’s suggestion has been forwarded to the IESM Steering Committee for consideration – Chander Kamboj)
To: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Sent: Fri, 13 November, 2009 6:06:21 PM
Subject: Draft Direct Tax Code
Dear Brig Kamboj,
The Draft Direct Tax Code, which will replace the present IT Act 1961 upon enactment, has been placed in public domain for discussion. The code has a number of provisions which if enacted without amendment, may take away some of the benefits currently available to the veterans. The provisions ,as currently drafted, may curtail the list of gallantry awards entitled to IT benefits as also the benefit for persons with disability pension. I have not seen any discussion in the IESM on these important issues that may hit the beneficiaries from 01 Apr 11, when the new code kicks in.
My suggestion to IESM therefore is to consider setting of a dedicated but broad based group consisting of veterans with experience in law, pay and allowances, gallantry award winners and persons in receipt of disability pension to examine the draft code and propose amendments. Once the amendments have generally been agreed to, then these could be forwarded to members of the mailing list for forwarding to appropriate agency in the Government for consideration.
It is my understanding that the proposed amendments will be examined by a committee before the draft is finalised and tabled in parliament for approval.
regards,
Brijesh,
Cmde(retd)
(Cmde Brijesh’s suggestion has been forwarded to the IESM Steering Committee for consideration – Chander Kamboj)
Veteran's day by Veteran Pradeep Sharma
From: pradeep sharma
To: ""REPORT MY SIGNAL" (CS Kamboj)"
Sent: Thu, 12 November, 2009 9:52:42 PM
Subject: Fwd: The Chronicle
On the occasion of veteran's day in the US.
Thought this may be circulated.
The item is from a newsletter forwarded by the patriot post.
pls see link below
http://patriotpost.us/
Regards
Pradeep Sharma
(Wg Cdr Pradeep Sharma, Noida)
--------
http://patriotpost.us/edition/2009/11/11/chronicle/print/
Chronicle
Wednesday, November 11, 2009
The Foundation
"Gentlemen, you will permit me to put on my spectacles, for I have grown not only gray, but almost blind in the service of my country." --George Washington
Veterans Day
Today is Veterans Day. We encourage all Patriots to set aside time and reflect on the sacrifice of our Patriot veterans and those serving today, and honor them accordingly.
On Nov. 11, 1921, an unknown American soldier from World War I was buried in Arlington National Cemetery, in recognition of WWI veterans and in conjunction with the timing of cessation of hostilities at 11 a.m., Nov. 11, 1918 (the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month). President Warren Harding requested that: "All ... citizens ... indulge in a period of silent thanks to God for these ... valorous lives and of supplication for His Divine mercy ... on our beloved country." Inscribed on the Tomb are the words: "Here lies in honored glory an American soldier know but to God." The day became known as "Armistice Day." In 1954, Congress, wanting to recognize the sacrifice of veterans since WWI, proposed to change Armistice Day to Veterans Day in their honor. President Dwight D. Eisenhower, former Supreme Commander in WWII, signed the legislation.
To honor those veterans who sacrificed all, an Army honor guard from the 3d U.S. Infantry (The Old Guard) keeps day and night vigil at Arlington. At 11 a.m. this morning, a combined color guard representing all military service branches executed "Present Arms" at the tomb for the laying of a wreath by the president, followed by "Taps."
More than a million Patriots stand ready, or are actively defending our nation today. These men and women were not drafted into service, but volunteered to serve. To all our veterans: Thank you for your dedicated service to the cause of liberty.
To the wounded soldiers and civilians, and the families of those killeld or wounded at Fort Hood: Our prayers are with you.
Mark Alexander will have more on Veterans Day in his essay tomorrow, dedicated to the service of two notable veterans.
Insight
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse." --John Stuart Mill
"A really great people, proud and high-spirited, would face all the disasters of war rather than purchase that base prosperity which is bought at the price of national honor." --Theodore Roosevelt
"Wars may be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of the men who follow and of the man who leads that gains the victory." --George S. Patton
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." --Sir Winston S. Churchill
"It is, in a way, an odd thing to honor those who died in defense of our country ... in wars far away. The imagination plays a trick. We see these soldiers in our mind as old and wise. We see them as something like the Founding Fathers, grave and gray-haired. But most of them were boys when they died, and they gave up two lives -- the one they were living and the one they would have lived. When they died, they gave up their chance to be husbands and fathers and grandfathers. They gave up their chance to be revered old men. They gave up everything for their country, for us. All we can do is remember." --Ronald Reagan
---------
To: ""REPORT MY SIGNAL" (CS Kamboj)"
Sent: Thu, 12 November, 2009 9:52:42 PM
Subject: Fwd: The Chronicle
On the occasion of veteran's day in the US.
Thought this may be circulated.
The item is from a newsletter forwarded by the patriot post.
pls see link below
http://patriotpost.us/
Regards
Pradeep Sharma
(Wg Cdr Pradeep Sharma, Noida)
--------
http://patriotpost.us/edition/2009/11/11/chronicle/print/
Chronicle
Wednesday, November 11, 2009
The Foundation
"Gentlemen, you will permit me to put on my spectacles, for I have grown not only gray, but almost blind in the service of my country." --George Washington
Veterans Day
Today is Veterans Day. We encourage all Patriots to set aside time and reflect on the sacrifice of our Patriot veterans and those serving today, and honor them accordingly.
On Nov. 11, 1921, an unknown American soldier from World War I was buried in Arlington National Cemetery, in recognition of WWI veterans and in conjunction with the timing of cessation of hostilities at 11 a.m., Nov. 11, 1918 (the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month). President Warren Harding requested that: "All ... citizens ... indulge in a period of silent thanks to God for these ... valorous lives and of supplication for His Divine mercy ... on our beloved country." Inscribed on the Tomb are the words: "Here lies in honored glory an American soldier know but to God." The day became known as "Armistice Day." In 1954, Congress, wanting to recognize the sacrifice of veterans since WWI, proposed to change Armistice Day to Veterans Day in their honor. President Dwight D. Eisenhower, former Supreme Commander in WWII, signed the legislation.
To honor those veterans who sacrificed all, an Army honor guard from the 3d U.S. Infantry (The Old Guard) keeps day and night vigil at Arlington. At 11 a.m. this morning, a combined color guard representing all military service branches executed "Present Arms" at the tomb for the laying of a wreath by the president, followed by "Taps."
More than a million Patriots stand ready, or are actively defending our nation today. These men and women were not drafted into service, but volunteered to serve. To all our veterans: Thank you for your dedicated service to the cause of liberty.
To the wounded soldiers and civilians, and the families of those killeld or wounded at Fort Hood: Our prayers are with you.
Mark Alexander will have more on Veterans Day in his essay tomorrow, dedicated to the service of two notable veterans.
Insight
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse." --John Stuart Mill
"A really great people, proud and high-spirited, would face all the disasters of war rather than purchase that base prosperity which is bought at the price of national honor." --Theodore Roosevelt
"Wars may be fought with weapons, but they are won by men. It is the spirit of the men who follow and of the man who leads that gains the victory." --George S. Patton
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." --Sir Winston S. Churchill
"It is, in a way, an odd thing to honor those who died in defense of our country ... in wars far away. The imagination plays a trick. We see these soldiers in our mind as old and wise. We see them as something like the Founding Fathers, grave and gray-haired. But most of them were boys when they died, and they gave up two lives -- the one they were living and the one they would have lived. When they died, they gave up their chance to be husbands and fathers and grandfathers. They gave up their chance to be revered old men. They gave up everything for their country, for us. All we can do is remember." --Ronald Reagan
---------
Tuesday, November 3, 2009
Views by Lt Gen KM Seth on Letter by Lt Gen Bahi
From: krish seth [mailto:sethkrish2006@yahoo.co.in]
Sent: 31 October 2009 17:09
To: Kamboj Chander
Subject: Re: EMAIL FROM LT GEN SK BAHRI -
"REPORT MY SIGNAL" - EMAIL 745/2009 - 30 OCT 09 (H to Z)
Ref Gen Bahris letter, if you wish I can have the letter delivered to the leader of the opposition.Kindly let me have the letter.
With Best wishes.
Gen Seth.
(Lt Gen KM Seth, held the Constitutional post of Governor of Tripura,and Chhatisgarh from June 2000 to Jan 2008. Presently at Noida - 0120 2430909, 9811224400 )
Sent: 31 October 2009 17:09
To: Kamboj Chander
Subject: Re: EMAIL FROM LT GEN SK BAHRI -
"REPORT MY SIGNAL" - EMAIL 745/2009 - 30 OCT 09 (H to Z)
Ref Gen Bahris letter, if you wish I can have the letter delivered to the leader of the opposition.Kindly let me have the letter.
With Best wishes.
Gen Seth.
(Lt Gen KM Seth, held the Constitutional post of Governor of Tripura,and Chhatisgarh from June 2000 to Jan 2008. Presently at Noida - 0120 2430909, 9811224400 )
Friday, October 30, 2009
Views of veteran Nawab
Dear Col Gill,
I personally appreciate your concern and compassion for ESM.We need more and more senior Veterans like you who are bold,truthful and concerned on disunity.
I am sure there have been mistakes from both sides,though i have no complain on Brig kamboj,s blog who has tried to render impartial service.
Can we once again request all ESM to unite and forget any wrong happened in the past.
We can both request all like minded veterans to project their voice.
Regards,
Nawab - a Veteran
I personally appreciate your concern and compassion for ESM.We need more and more senior Veterans like you who are bold,truthful and concerned on disunity.
I am sure there have been mistakes from both sides,though i have no complain on Brig kamboj,s blog who has tried to render impartial service.
Can we once again request all ESM to unite and forget any wrong happened in the past.
We can both request all like minded veterans to project their voice.
Regards,
Nawab - a Veteran
Monday, October 26, 2009
Views of Col Raman on Medals return..25 Oct 2009
From: ramantn sarma colram40@yahoo.com
To: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in; TRUNCATED ;
Sent: Sun, 25 October, 2009 10:28:03 PM
Subject: Re: [indianveterans] ESM sitrep 25 Oct evening
Dear General Raj Kadyan,
Kindly accept our congratulations for implementing the programme of depositing the medals today, even at the cost of some negative publicity indulged in by some of our own "Well Wishers".
I do not know whether the Delhi based TV Channels covered the event live or not. But the DMK sponsored Sun TV gave adequate coverage to your talk & a few of the other Veterans, in their 7 PM as well as 8 PM news today.
Well done. It will be a great morale booster to the IESM as well as the ESM community at large.
Best Wishes,
Veteran Raman
----------------
From: prabhjot singh prabhjot_singh0@yahoo.com
To: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Sent: Fri, 23 October, 2009 1:47:17 PM
Subject: Repot my signal
Dear Veteran (Brig.) Kamboj,
Regards.Find below a copy of our communique faxed to authorities regarding OROP for underprivileged veterans. Please post the same on 'Repot my Signal' blog,if you deem it fit, for the information of underprivileged veterans. I shall be obliged.
Veteran Prabhjot Singh chhatwal PLS Retd.
President,
Indian Ex-Services League, Punjab & Chandigarh,
Mob.098554-09128,Tele-Fax.0175-5000896.
-----------
Tele-Fax 0175-5000896
Mob.098554-09128
INDIAN EX-SERVICES LEAGUE
PUNJAB & CHANDIGARH
(Regd. under Societies Registration Act XXI of 1860)
3-GURU RAM DASS NAGAR, PATIALA, PUNJAB -147 004
IESL/13/2009 Dt. 23 Oct.2009
To
6th Pay Commission Cell (Army),
Adjutant General Branch,
Room No. 1, 'A' Wing, Sena Bhawan,
Integrated Hq. of MoD (Army),
New Delhi -110 105.
Sub. POST SIXTH CPC DEMANDS
Dear Col. Puneet Kapoor,
1. Please refer to your DO letter C/7086/VI-PCC ( Army ) dt.02.09.2009 in above connection.
2. Please advise the latest position of OROP as announced by the Govt in budget on 06-07- 2009.
3. We further request Ministry of Defence to restrict usage of nasty term ' PBOR' for JCOs, SNCOs, NCOs and other ranks as this section of veterans think it as most humiliating when addressed as such. Some other proper and respectable term may be coined as a substitute to this term.
An early response will be highly appreciated.
Sd/-
( Veteran Prabhjot Singh Chhatwal PLS Retd.)
President.
Copy to: PCDA (P) Allhabad w,r.t. their letter No. Gts/Tech/165III
dt. 29 .09.2009. &nb sp;
Sd/-
President
-------------
From: colonelviruswarup@gmail.com
To: sadhusohi@gmail.com
Subject: RE: ESM Sanjha Morch Gurgaon Mtg Gurgaon
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 22:37:44 -0700
Dear Col Sohi,
It’s counter-productive… Perhaps the better way would be to build your NGO on positive note by lending hands to those who are working for the welfare of ESM including OROP demand. In case your group feel depositing medals is not a good idea then don’t do it. But, flashing mail to all and everyone showing dissension isn’t in good taste. I may, if you will, mention that for reasons’ best known to you all, if reconciliation through a dialogue is not possible, you may consider arbitration to resolve the hurting issues. As a responsible ESM community, let’s not give a chance to others’ to laugh at us.
May I humbly request you to take this mail on its face value and not try to read in between the lines and interpret to counter my email for the sake of shooting me down? My interjection is only prompted by a feeling of brotherhood…
May God Bless you!
Warm regards,
Sincerely,
Viru Swarup
(Col Virendra Swarup is from Poona Horse. Commanded 44 Armored Regiment. The last appointment held before he got invalidated out of military service was MS, HQ 10 Corps. In one of the freak accident he lost his eye sight. A soldier with great courage and determination, making best of the life. - Chander Kamboj)
......
From: bhupal singh bsec234@hotmail.com
To: Col Sohi SS sadhusohi@gmail.com
Cc: Col Swarup Viru colonelviruswarup@gmail.com
Sent: Sat, 24 October, 2009 11:52:15 AM
Subject: FW: ESM Sanjha Morch Gurgaon Mtg Gurgaon
Dear All,
I appreciate the sound and brotherly advice cum suggestions of Col Swarup. We shall make ourselves a laughing stock of Govt ( politicians ), bureaucracy and others. Our sites are constantly monitored by all those who matter and they know exactly as to what is
transpiring over our blogs.
IESM has become a formiddable movement in its own right and it has instilled a feeling of confidence amongst us all. Disunity at this stage will result in a fragmented ESM Movement and our mission will remain a myth for ever. You are all experienced, wise and competent leaders of our Movement in your own way. Let us all join hands and take it forward instead of killing it half way. As reagrds your differences, I also feel that the course suggested by Col Swarup is the right way.
I assume, you will give a re-think to your ideas and adopt a course favourable to a joint movement, since our individual efforts will not bear the results.
With regards & best wishes to all of you,
Bhupal Singh, veteran
Australia
---------------
From: generalhoon generalhoon@yahoo.com
Subject:
To: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in, TRUNCATED,
Date: Monday, 26 October, 2009, 12:58 PM
Dear All,
Latest interview Lt General P N Hoon (Retd.) PVSM,AVSM,SM available on net www.therkbshow.com if interested you may browse the site.
Lt General P N Hoon (Retd.) PVSM,AVSM,SM
--------------
From: Krishan K Punchhi kkpunchhi@yahoo.ca
To: DELETED
Sent: Thu, 22 October, 2009 9:12:46 PM
Subject: ADMIRAL MEHTA AND NEW ZEALAND
Dear Friends,
Appointment of Admiral Mehta to NZ seems to have generated a heated and healthy debate. Allow me to talk about two personalities.
First one is Gen Raina. Someone told me that he too headed an Indian mission abroad after he retired. Friends have mentioned many names but not his. Thought I'll point it out.
I wonder how many know that before imposing emergency, IG proposed to him that he declare and impose martial law, get everything under control and working smoothly as per her desires, and then hand over the country back to her. He just refused, saying that there was no call for martial law to be imposed and also that it was better not to have the armed forces meddling in politics. She was surprised and disappointed as she thought that the two will click well on a Kashmiri net !! This info came my way only a couple of weeks ago. The source is totally reliable.
The second is Admiral Ronnie Periera. A friend pointed out that he was left out because he stood up to IG and was about to be sacked. He said that 'better sense' prevailed and he was not sacked. My info says that the next man, VADM Barboza, was asked to come to New Delhi in a BSF plane and take over. He just refused to do so. Is that why he was not made the next CNS ?
He refused to do to Ronnie Periera what Sushil Kumar did to Vishnu Bhagwat a few years later !!
Regards............K K Punchhi
-------------
From: vpsachar@vsnl.net [mailto:vpsachar@vsnl.net]
Sent: 26 October 2009 06:18
To: Kamboj Chander; indianveterans@yahoogroups.com
Cc: indianveterans@yahoogroups.com; sacharv@ymail.com
Subject: Re: ESM SITREP 25 OCT 09 - REPORT MY SIGNAL - EMAIL 732/2009 - 25 OCT 09(H to Z)
God bless all and wishing a speedy recovery to Maj DC Gupta.
THE BEST AND MOST TOUCHY E-MAIL ON HUMAN RELATIONS BY THE VETETANS.
Regards to all.
VPS
------------
From: Lt Col Inderjit singh gill isgill@rediffmail.com
To: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in; TRUNCATED;
Sent: Mon, 26 October, 2009 10:43:32 AM
Subject: Re: Navdeep's Blog : TELEPHONE REIMBURSEMENT
Dear All,
Going through Major Navdeep Singh's Blog (thanks to Capt Reet), I found mention of "Office Memorandum" of Govt of India, Ministry of Finance, Dept of Expenditure dated 14 Nov, 2007 regading REIMBURSEMENT of telephone / mobile charges to Central Govt officers (incl Services).
Having served in SIGNALS for 23 years, I am certain that ARMY (rather SERVICES) would have not told its people about this entitlement even in 2009 !! Do we balme BABU for this.
May I request through this email to put wise our friends in Uniform about it so that draw what their civil counterparts are drawing.
Warm Regards
-------------------
THE END
To: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in; TRUNCATED ;
Sent: Sun, 25 October, 2009 10:28:03 PM
Subject: Re: [indianveterans] ESM sitrep 25 Oct evening
Dear General Raj Kadyan,
Kindly accept our congratulations for implementing the programme of depositing the medals today, even at the cost of some negative publicity indulged in by some of our own "Well Wishers".
I do not know whether the Delhi based TV Channels covered the event live or not. But the DMK sponsored Sun TV gave adequate coverage to your talk & a few of the other Veterans, in their 7 PM as well as 8 PM news today.
Well done. It will be a great morale booster to the IESM as well as the ESM community at large.
Best Wishes,
Veteran Raman
----------------
From: prabhjot singh prabhjot_singh0@yahoo.com
To: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Sent: Fri, 23 October, 2009 1:47:17 PM
Subject: Repot my signal
Dear Veteran (Brig.) Kamboj,
Regards.Find below a copy of our communique faxed to authorities regarding OROP for underprivileged veterans. Please post the same on 'Repot my Signal' blog,if you deem it fit, for the information of underprivileged veterans. I shall be obliged.
Veteran Prabhjot Singh chhatwal PLS Retd.
President,
Indian Ex-Services League, Punjab & Chandigarh,
Mob.098554-09128,Tele-Fax.0175-5000896.
-----------
Tele-Fax 0175-5000896
Mob.098554-09128
INDIAN EX-SERVICES LEAGUE
PUNJAB & CHANDIGARH
(Regd. under Societies Registration Act XXI of 1860)
3-GURU RAM DASS NAGAR, PATIALA, PUNJAB -147 004
IESL/13/2009 Dt. 23 Oct.2009
To
6th Pay Commission Cell (Army),
Adjutant General Branch,
Room No. 1, 'A' Wing, Sena Bhawan,
Integrated Hq. of MoD (Army),
New Delhi -110 105.
Sub. POST SIXTH CPC DEMANDS
Dear Col. Puneet Kapoor,
1. Please refer to your DO letter C/7086/VI-PCC ( Army ) dt.02.09.2009 in above connection.
2. Please advise the latest position of OROP as announced by the Govt in budget on 06-07- 2009.
3. We further request Ministry of Defence to restrict usage of nasty term ' PBOR' for JCOs, SNCOs, NCOs and other ranks as this section of veterans think it as most humiliating when addressed as such. Some other proper and respectable term may be coined as a substitute to this term.
An early response will be highly appreciated.
Sd/-
( Veteran Prabhjot Singh Chhatwal PLS Retd.)
President.
Copy to: PCDA (P) Allhabad w,r.t. their letter No. Gts/Tech/165III
dt. 29 .09.2009. &nb sp;
Sd/-
President
-------------
From: colonelviruswarup@gmail.com
To: sadhusohi@gmail.com
Subject: RE: ESM Sanjha Morch Gurgaon Mtg Gurgaon
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 22:37:44 -0700
Dear Col Sohi,
It’s counter-productive… Perhaps the better way would be to build your NGO on positive note by lending hands to those who are working for the welfare of ESM including OROP demand. In case your group feel depositing medals is not a good idea then don’t do it. But, flashing mail to all and everyone showing dissension isn’t in good taste. I may, if you will, mention that for reasons’ best known to you all, if reconciliation through a dialogue is not possible, you may consider arbitration to resolve the hurting issues. As a responsible ESM community, let’s not give a chance to others’ to laugh at us.
May I humbly request you to take this mail on its face value and not try to read in between the lines and interpret to counter my email for the sake of shooting me down? My interjection is only prompted by a feeling of brotherhood…
May God Bless you!
Warm regards,
Sincerely,
Viru Swarup
(Col Virendra Swarup is from Poona Horse. Commanded 44 Armored Regiment. The last appointment held before he got invalidated out of military service was MS, HQ 10 Corps. In one of the freak accident he lost his eye sight. A soldier with great courage and determination, making best of the life. - Chander Kamboj)
......
From: bhupal singh bsec234@hotmail.com
To: Col Sohi SS sadhusohi@gmail.com
Cc: Col Swarup Viru colonelviruswarup@gmail.com
Sent: Sat, 24 October, 2009 11:52:15 AM
Subject: FW: ESM Sanjha Morch Gurgaon Mtg Gurgaon
Dear All,
I appreciate the sound and brotherly advice cum suggestions of Col Swarup. We shall make ourselves a laughing stock of Govt ( politicians ), bureaucracy and others. Our sites are constantly monitored by all those who matter and they know exactly as to what is
transpiring over our blogs.
IESM has become a formiddable movement in its own right and it has instilled a feeling of confidence amongst us all. Disunity at this stage will result in a fragmented ESM Movement and our mission will remain a myth for ever. You are all experienced, wise and competent leaders of our Movement in your own way. Let us all join hands and take it forward instead of killing it half way. As reagrds your differences, I also feel that the course suggested by Col Swarup is the right way.
I assume, you will give a re-think to your ideas and adopt a course favourable to a joint movement, since our individual efforts will not bear the results.
With regards & best wishes to all of you,
Bhupal Singh, veteran
Australia
---------------
From: generalhoon generalhoon@yahoo.com
Subject:
To: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in, TRUNCATED,
Date: Monday, 26 October, 2009, 12:58 PM
Dear All,
Latest interview Lt General P N Hoon (Retd.) PVSM,AVSM,SM available on net www.therkbshow.com if interested you may browse the site.
Lt General P N Hoon (Retd.) PVSM,AVSM,SM
--------------
From: Krishan K Punchhi kkpunchhi@yahoo.ca
To: DELETED
Sent: Thu, 22 October, 2009 9:12:46 PM
Subject: ADMIRAL MEHTA AND NEW ZEALAND
Dear Friends,
Appointment of Admiral Mehta to NZ seems to have generated a heated and healthy debate. Allow me to talk about two personalities.
First one is Gen Raina. Someone told me that he too headed an Indian mission abroad after he retired. Friends have mentioned many names but not his. Thought I'll point it out.
I wonder how many know that before imposing emergency, IG proposed to him that he declare and impose martial law, get everything under control and working smoothly as per her desires, and then hand over the country back to her. He just refused, saying that there was no call for martial law to be imposed and also that it was better not to have the armed forces meddling in politics. She was surprised and disappointed as she thought that the two will click well on a Kashmiri net !! This info came my way only a couple of weeks ago. The source is totally reliable.
The second is Admiral Ronnie Periera. A friend pointed out that he was left out because he stood up to IG and was about to be sacked. He said that 'better sense' prevailed and he was not sacked. My info says that the next man, VADM Barboza, was asked to come to New Delhi in a BSF plane and take over. He just refused to do so. Is that why he was not made the next CNS ?
He refused to do to Ronnie Periera what Sushil Kumar did to Vishnu Bhagwat a few years later !!
Regards............K K Punchhi
-------------
From: vpsachar@vsnl.net [mailto:vpsachar@vsnl.net]
Sent: 26 October 2009 06:18
To: Kamboj Chander; indianveterans@yahoogroups.com
Cc: indianveterans@yahoogroups.com; sacharv@ymail.com
Subject: Re: ESM SITREP 25 OCT 09 - REPORT MY SIGNAL - EMAIL 732/2009 - 25 OCT 09(H to Z)
God bless all and wishing a speedy recovery to Maj DC Gupta.
THE BEST AND MOST TOUCHY E-MAIL ON HUMAN RELATIONS BY THE VETETANS.
Regards to all.
VPS
------------
From: Lt Col Inderjit singh gill isgill@rediffmail.com
To: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in; TRUNCATED;
Sent: Mon, 26 October, 2009 10:43:32 AM
Subject: Re: Navdeep's Blog : TELEPHONE REIMBURSEMENT
Dear All,
Going through Major Navdeep Singh's Blog (thanks to Capt Reet), I found mention of "Office Memorandum" of Govt of India, Ministry of Finance, Dept of Expenditure dated 14 Nov, 2007 regading REIMBURSEMENT of telephone / mobile charges to Central Govt officers (incl Services).
Having served in SIGNALS for 23 years, I am certain that ARMY (rather SERVICES) would have not told its people about this entitlement even in 2009 !! Do we balme BABU for this.
May I request through this email to put wise our friends in Uniform about it so that draw what their civil counterparts are drawing.
Warm Regards
-------------------
THE END
Sunday, October 25, 2009
Views on OROP by Wg.Cdr.S.P.Choudhary,
From: S.P.Choudhary [mailto:spc3@airtelmail.in]
Sent: 25 October 2009 08:23
To: Kamboj Chander
Cc: Arjun Verma
Subject: Re: EMAIL FROM VICE CHAIRMAN IESM - REPORT MY SIGNAL - EMAIL 728/2009 - 24 OCT 09 (A to G)
Respected Leadership of ESMs,
Nothing at all is going to come out of our 'Cry in the wilderness ' for OROP or any other demands for the simple reason that it is not some thing that will hurt the adversary. No one ever cares to responds for altruistic reasons. Some response could have been expected before Parliamentary Elections. Now that the Parliamentary Elections are over, no one cares for our voice, campaign etc.
Just recall that a single Col. Bhonsala ( I apologize if I am not quoting his name correctly ) the leader of GUJJAR agitation, shook the entire State Govt. and also the country. We now have hundreds of Cols , right up to Generals, but we have hardly been able to get worth while reaction.
For every Campaign one has to employ a suitable strategy. That has to be devised on study and analysis of 'Strength and Weakness of our own and also that of the adversary. Our insistence on following our old Military Ethos when we are no more in Military, is only due to our FEAR of legal action by the Govt. and it is not an objective Strategy which, has to be devised on consideration of the adversary ( the enemy ) and the one which will hit or hurt the enemy, sufficiently. Once the Elections are over, no one is bothered about our whining.
What we thought of as a very potent weapon of returning our DEAR MEDALS, has fallen flat, whether we admit it or not.
All decisions, ultimately are by the politicians. Babus are their foot soldiers and modify their approach on the lines their political bosses are likely to listen to.
Our so called agitation did bring some response before elections and then also more due to pressure of the Serving Commanders.
So, unless we can re-orientate our approach, we should suspend all actions,because in the present form even the civilian population is getting wary of our noise, and in due course we will loose not only their sympathy but also their respect.
Yours etc,
Wg.Cdr.S.P.Choudhary, VSM (Retd.)
Sent: 25 October 2009 08:23
To: Kamboj Chander
Cc: Arjun Verma
Subject: Re: EMAIL FROM VICE CHAIRMAN IESM - REPORT MY SIGNAL - EMAIL 728/2009 - 24 OCT 09 (A to G)
Respected Leadership of ESMs,
Nothing at all is going to come out of our 'Cry in the wilderness ' for OROP or any other demands for the simple reason that it is not some thing that will hurt the adversary. No one ever cares to responds for altruistic reasons. Some response could have been expected before Parliamentary Elections. Now that the Parliamentary Elections are over, no one cares for our voice, campaign etc.
Just recall that a single Col. Bhonsala ( I apologize if I am not quoting his name correctly ) the leader of GUJJAR agitation, shook the entire State Govt. and also the country. We now have hundreds of Cols , right up to Generals, but we have hardly been able to get worth while reaction.
For every Campaign one has to employ a suitable strategy. That has to be devised on study and analysis of 'Strength and Weakness of our own and also that of the adversary. Our insistence on following our old Military Ethos when we are no more in Military, is only due to our FEAR of legal action by the Govt. and it is not an objective Strategy which, has to be devised on consideration of the adversary ( the enemy ) and the one which will hit or hurt the enemy, sufficiently. Once the Elections are over, no one is bothered about our whining.
What we thought of as a very potent weapon of returning our DEAR MEDALS, has fallen flat, whether we admit it or not.
All decisions, ultimately are by the politicians. Babus are their foot soldiers and modify their approach on the lines their political bosses are likely to listen to.
Our so called agitation did bring some response before elections and then also more due to pressure of the Serving Commanders.
So, unless we can re-orientate our approach, we should suspend all actions,because in the present form even the civilian population is getting wary of our noise, and in due course we will loose not only their sympathy but also their respect.
Yours etc,
Wg.Cdr.S.P.Choudhary, VSM (Retd.)
Views of Air Cmde Raghubir Singh from Pune
Dear Sir
I think one of the key demands apart from OROP should be to have constituency for the
ESM's much like Graduate constituency to look after the interests of the ESM's which
successive governments have failed to do so. Till such time Govt may like
to nominate two ESM's one Retd Gen rank( Maj Gen-Gen eqv) & one JCO eqv to
the Rajya Sabha. Difficult? No harm in trying
Air Cmde Raghubir Singh (Retd)
I think one of the key demands apart from OROP should be to have constituency for the
ESM's much like Graduate constituency to look after the interests of the ESM's which
successive governments have failed to do so. Till such time Govt may like
to nominate two ESM's one Retd Gen rank( Maj Gen-Gen eqv) & one JCO eqv to
the Rajya Sabha. Difficult? No harm in trying
Air Cmde Raghubir Singh (Retd)
Mails to editors bt Lt Col Bm Thapa for return of medals
From: Brij Mohan Thapa
To: aaaaa Amar Ujala
Sent: Sat, 24 October, 2009 4:46:23 PM
Subject: Depositing of Medals on 25 Oct 2009 By Ex-Servicemen To President of India
Dear Editor,
Kindly arrange to publish the following important news and press release of welfare of 23 lakhs retired Ex-Servicemen of India who have already deposited 20000 medals to the President of India and now on 25 Oct 09 at 3 pm again depositing medals to the President of India please.
Lt Col B M Thapa, Veteran, Member IESM, gen Secy DESL
Depositing of Medals on 25 Oct 2009 By Ex-Servicemen To President of India
Dear Veterans,
1. The Govt continues to ignore the grant of One Rank One Pension demand of Ex Servicemen (ESM). The Prime Minister in his speech at Red Fort on 15 Aug 09 had stated that pensions of JCOs and other ranks have been enhanced. Even, these orders have not yet been issued by the Govt. Why there should be so much delay? Is it that bureaucracy with intent to harass the Ex Servicemen is causing hurdles in issuing the necessary orders? The Ex Servicemen are very angry and hurt on this attitude of the Govt.
2. Indian Ex Servicemen Movement (IESM) an Umbrella Organisation of all ESM of India has been carrying out the crusade against the Injustice to the Defence Forces. It has been able to focus the issues concerning the Defence Personnel and had put up four demands to the Govt as under:-
· One Rank One Pension (OROP).
· Assured Second Career for all Defence Personnel till the age of 60 years through the Act of Parliament.
· Ex Servicemen Commission with all members from Ex-Servicemen and widows.
· All future commissions / committees concerning ESM must have member from ESM.
3. Currently various options as under are being exercised to get our demands met by the Govt.
· Approaching PM & RM again, bringing out the inadequacies of Cab Secy Committee recommendations regarding OROP.
· Seeking audience with the President.
· Approaching all MPs to take up the cause of Defence Personnel to get our demand of OROP sanctioned by the Govt. Requesting them to raise the issue in the Parliament.
· Approaching media, both Print and Electronic to give due coverge to the cause of Defence Force to get the support of people of India.
· Asking our brethren veterans who have flare for writing to write articles and get these published through various media means.
· Organising Rallies in support of our cause in various parts of the country.
· Organising various events during Kargil and Vijay Diwas focusing the contributions of Defence Forces towards the Nation.
· When the Govt continued to ignore our demands inspite of our continued efforts through meetings with various Govt functionaries, inorder to express our anguish and hurt feelings, depositing our hard earned Medals with the President. 20000 medals on four different occasions have already been deposited. This is one method which has caused some concern in the Govt circles. The same was evident from the statement of RRM in the Parliament that “Since the demand of OROP has been met for JCOs and ORs (infact not met), ESM are requested to take back their medals”. Keeping this in mind IESM is depositing the medals once again with the President on 25Oct 09 ie tomorrow at 3 PM. The medals are being collected at Jantar Mantar between 10 AM to 2 PM.
· Exercising legal option. All preliminary work has been carried out including engaging the most suitable advocate who had fought the case of Pre 96 Major Generals and won.
· Intensifying the protest Movement through yatras, dharanas and other peaceful and dignified means within the democratic norms and discipline.
4. Dear Friends, during our service we have learnt the principles of any dynamic struggle ie concentration of Force, (implying the “Unity and collective Wisdom” of all ESM) & Maintenance of Movement (graduated upgradation of intensity of the Movement in quality, quantity and volume). It is here we seek your cooperation. We request you to join the Movement by becoming its member and those ESM who have not yet deposited medals, volunteering to deposit medals tomorrow at Jantar Mantar between 10 AM to 2 PM. Medals can also be deposited at the IESM HQ Office at 543 Sector 23 Gurgaon (Hr.)
5. This is the time to show Unity and Visibility to the Govt. So kindly deposit your medals to show solidarity with the cause of Defence Forces. OROP is our most genuine and legitimate demand and we MUST get it. All past pensioners with same years of service and same rank must get the same pension irrespective of the date of retirement.
6. OROP update and Press Release are attached for your information.
“Let us join together to make the Movement successful by getting
our demands met from the Govt”
With Kind Regards,
Jai Hind
Yours Sincerely,
Maj Gen (Retd) Satbir Singh, SM
Vice Chairman Indian ESM Movement
Mobile: 9312404269, 0124-4110570
To: aaaaa Amar Ujala
Sent: Sat, 24 October, 2009 4:46:23 PM
Subject: Depositing of Medals on 25 Oct 2009 By Ex-Servicemen To President of India
Dear Editor,
Kindly arrange to publish the following important news and press release of welfare of 23 lakhs retired Ex-Servicemen of India who have already deposited 20000 medals to the President of India and now on 25 Oct 09 at 3 pm again depositing medals to the President of India please.
Lt Col B M Thapa, Veteran, Member IESM, gen Secy DESL
Depositing of Medals on 25 Oct 2009 By Ex-Servicemen To President of India
Dear Veterans,
1. The Govt continues to ignore the grant of One Rank One Pension demand of Ex Servicemen (ESM). The Prime Minister in his speech at Red Fort on 15 Aug 09 had stated that pensions of JCOs and other ranks have been enhanced. Even, these orders have not yet been issued by the Govt. Why there should be so much delay? Is it that bureaucracy with intent to harass the Ex Servicemen is causing hurdles in issuing the necessary orders? The Ex Servicemen are very angry and hurt on this attitude of the Govt.
2. Indian Ex Servicemen Movement (IESM) an Umbrella Organisation of all ESM of India has been carrying out the crusade against the Injustice to the Defence Forces. It has been able to focus the issues concerning the Defence Personnel and had put up four demands to the Govt as under:-
· One Rank One Pension (OROP).
· Assured Second Career for all Defence Personnel till the age of 60 years through the Act of Parliament.
· Ex Servicemen Commission with all members from Ex-Servicemen and widows.
· All future commissions / committees concerning ESM must have member from ESM.
3. Currently various options as under are being exercised to get our demands met by the Govt.
· Approaching PM & RM again, bringing out the inadequacies of Cab Secy Committee recommendations regarding OROP.
· Seeking audience with the President.
· Approaching all MPs to take up the cause of Defence Personnel to get our demand of OROP sanctioned by the Govt. Requesting them to raise the issue in the Parliament.
· Approaching media, both Print and Electronic to give due coverge to the cause of Defence Force to get the support of people of India.
· Asking our brethren veterans who have flare for writing to write articles and get these published through various media means.
· Organising Rallies in support of our cause in various parts of the country.
· Organising various events during Kargil and Vijay Diwas focusing the contributions of Defence Forces towards the Nation.
· When the Govt continued to ignore our demands inspite of our continued efforts through meetings with various Govt functionaries, inorder to express our anguish and hurt feelings, depositing our hard earned Medals with the President. 20000 medals on four different occasions have already been deposited. This is one method which has caused some concern in the Govt circles. The same was evident from the statement of RRM in the Parliament that “Since the demand of OROP has been met for JCOs and ORs (infact not met), ESM are requested to take back their medals”. Keeping this in mind IESM is depositing the medals once again with the President on 25Oct 09 ie tomorrow at 3 PM. The medals are being collected at Jantar Mantar between 10 AM to 2 PM.
· Exercising legal option. All preliminary work has been carried out including engaging the most suitable advocate who had fought the case of Pre 96 Major Generals and won.
· Intensifying the protest Movement through yatras, dharanas and other peaceful and dignified means within the democratic norms and discipline.
4. Dear Friends, during our service we have learnt the principles of any dynamic struggle ie concentration of Force, (implying the “Unity and collective Wisdom” of all ESM) & Maintenance of Movement (graduated upgradation of intensity of the Movement in quality, quantity and volume). It is here we seek your cooperation. We request you to join the Movement by becoming its member and those ESM who have not yet deposited medals, volunteering to deposit medals tomorrow at Jantar Mantar between 10 AM to 2 PM. Medals can also be deposited at the IESM HQ Office at 543 Sector 23 Gurgaon (Hr.)
5. This is the time to show Unity and Visibility to the Govt. So kindly deposit your medals to show solidarity with the cause of Defence Forces. OROP is our most genuine and legitimate demand and we MUST get it. All past pensioners with same years of service and same rank must get the same pension irrespective of the date of retirement.
6. OROP update and Press Release are attached for your information.
“Let us join together to make the Movement successful by getting
our demands met from the Govt”
With Kind Regards,
Jai Hind
Yours Sincerely,
Maj Gen (Retd) Satbir Singh, SM
Vice Chairman Indian ESM Movement
Mobile: 9312404269, 0124-4110570
Tuesday, October 20, 2009
Views by Lt Col BM Thapa
Dear Editor,
Kindly arrange to publish the following information in your news paper being most important for welfare of 23 lacs Ex-Servicemen of the country please.
Regards.
Lt Col B M Thapa, Veteran , Member Indian Ex- Services Movement, Gen Secy, Dehradun Ex-Services League
AN APPEAL FROM INDIAN EX-SERVICES MOVEMENT
Brig C S Kamboj, V S M, Veteran,(E Mail ID-kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in)
In last one year or so, if the ESM have been able to draw the attention of the public, the media and the Government of India, it is purely because of the efforts of Ex Servicemen, all supporting the IESM forcefully and some of its supporters working silently behind the scenes.
Former Chiefs of Army and Navy, who are members of IESM and are whole heartedly supporting us behind the scenes.
Some of the ESM Organisations of JCOs, NCOs and ORs have also been giving very strong support to IESM in its mission; while these ESM organisations have been independently pressurising the Government of India, they have also been supporting the IESM whole heartedly in its plans on ground.
The Government has done very little for ESM so far, but they are aware of the rapidly rising popularity of IESM among the ESM.
There are also very strong rumours floating around that while internally the Government has in principle agreed to OROP, it will announce it only a year or so before the next general elections!!!
We cannot believe such rumours – and have to continue with our efforts to get –
“JUSTICE FOR DEFENCE SERVICES”.
So let us all stand shoulder to shoulder and support the activities of IESM whole heartedly.
An email received from Maj Gen Satbir Singh, Retd, S M,Vice Chairman IESM, is reproduced below. The attachment received with the email in English language is reproduced below his email. Please translate the English version in your regional languages and have these circulated widely in your respective areas.
Please do put in your best efforts to make the depositing of medals on 25 Oct 09 a grand success event as earlier.
A handful of leaders of IESM cannot achieve the aim unless we all support sincerely and with all our might.
Success of IESM is in the interest of ALL ESM of INDIA, spread all over the world.
In Service of Indian Military Veterans
In Put By Lt Col B M Thapa, Veteran & Member of IESM
PRESS RELEASE/INVITATION
Unhappy Over Non Grant of One Rank One Pension (OROP), Ex - Servicemen Deposit Medals with the President Fifth time on 25 Oct 2009 at Jantar Mantar
Dear Members of the Media
1. The Govt continues to ignore the grant of One Rank One Pension demand of Ex Servicemen (ESM). The Prime Minister in his speech at Red Fort on 15 Aug 09 had stated that pensions of JCOs and other ranks have been enhanced. Even, these orders have not yet been issued by the Govt. Why there should be so much delay? Is it that bureaucracy with intent to harass the Ex Servicemen is causing hurdles in issuing the necessary orders? The Ex Servicemen are very angry and hurt on this attitude of the Govt. The Ex Servicemen across the country have asked the Indian Ex Servicemen Movement (IESM) leadership who have been protesting for the last one and half year against the Injustice to Defence Forces to intensify the Movement to get OROP sanctioned at the earliest. IESM has decided to deposit the medals once again with the President on 25 Oct 09. It may please be noted that Ex Servicemen have already deposited 20000 medals with the President.
2. ESM PAN India have started depositing the medals with the IESM HQ at Gurgaon (Hr). The medals will also be collected on 25 Oct 09 at Jantar Mantar, New Delhi from 10 AM to 2 PM. Thereafter, a delegation of IESM will proceed to Rashtrapati Bhawan to deposit the medals with the President.
3. IESM appeals to all ESM across the country to volunteer deposit the medals to strengthen the Movement for getting Justice to the Defence Personnel, the most important demand being the grant of OROP. It is pertinent to mention that an old pensioner Sepoy with 17 years of service gets a pension of Rs 3500/-per month only where as a Sepoy retiring after 2006 with same years of service gets a Pension of Rs 7045/- per month. This is totally unjust, illegal and happens only in our Country.
4. You are requested to kindly publish this in your news paper/carry it in your news channel/magazine /periodicals and also cover the event on 25 Oct 2009 between 10 AM to 3 PM at Jantar Mantar, New Delhi.
With Kind Regards,
Jai Hind
Yours Sincerely,
Maj Gen (Retd) Satbir Singh, SM
Kindly arrange to publish the following information in your news paper being most important for welfare of 23 lacs Ex-Servicemen of the country please.
Regards.
Lt Col B M Thapa, Veteran , Member Indian Ex- Services Movement, Gen Secy, Dehradun Ex-Services League
AN APPEAL FROM INDIAN EX-SERVICES MOVEMENT
Brig C S Kamboj, V S M, Veteran,(E Mail ID-kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in)
In last one year or so, if the ESM have been able to draw the attention of the public, the media and the Government of India, it is purely because of the efforts of Ex Servicemen, all supporting the IESM forcefully and some of its supporters working silently behind the scenes.
Former Chiefs of Army and Navy, who are members of IESM and are whole heartedly supporting us behind the scenes.
Some of the ESM Organisations of JCOs, NCOs and ORs have also been giving very strong support to IESM in its mission; while these ESM organisations have been independently pressurising the Government of India, they have also been supporting the IESM whole heartedly in its plans on ground.
The Government has done very little for ESM so far, but they are aware of the rapidly rising popularity of IESM among the ESM.
There are also very strong rumours floating around that while internally the Government has in principle agreed to OROP, it will announce it only a year or so before the next general elections!!!
We cannot believe such rumours – and have to continue with our efforts to get –
“JUSTICE FOR DEFENCE SERVICES”.
So let us all stand shoulder to shoulder and support the activities of IESM whole heartedly.
An email received from Maj Gen Satbir Singh, Retd, S M,Vice Chairman IESM, is reproduced below. The attachment received with the email in English language is reproduced below his email. Please translate the English version in your regional languages and have these circulated widely in your respective areas.
Please do put in your best efforts to make the depositing of medals on 25 Oct 09 a grand success event as earlier.
A handful of leaders of IESM cannot achieve the aim unless we all support sincerely and with all our might.
Success of IESM is in the interest of ALL ESM of INDIA, spread all over the world.
In Service of Indian Military Veterans
In Put By Lt Col B M Thapa, Veteran & Member of IESM
PRESS RELEASE/INVITATION
Unhappy Over Non Grant of One Rank One Pension (OROP), Ex - Servicemen Deposit Medals with the President Fifth time on 25 Oct 2009 at Jantar Mantar
Dear Members of the Media
1. The Govt continues to ignore the grant of One Rank One Pension demand of Ex Servicemen (ESM). The Prime Minister in his speech at Red Fort on 15 Aug 09 had stated that pensions of JCOs and other ranks have been enhanced. Even, these orders have not yet been issued by the Govt. Why there should be so much delay? Is it that bureaucracy with intent to harass the Ex Servicemen is causing hurdles in issuing the necessary orders? The Ex Servicemen are very angry and hurt on this attitude of the Govt. The Ex Servicemen across the country have asked the Indian Ex Servicemen Movement (IESM) leadership who have been protesting for the last one and half year against the Injustice to Defence Forces to intensify the Movement to get OROP sanctioned at the earliest. IESM has decided to deposit the medals once again with the President on 25 Oct 09. It may please be noted that Ex Servicemen have already deposited 20000 medals with the President.
2. ESM PAN India have started depositing the medals with the IESM HQ at Gurgaon (Hr). The medals will also be collected on 25 Oct 09 at Jantar Mantar, New Delhi from 10 AM to 2 PM. Thereafter, a delegation of IESM will proceed to Rashtrapati Bhawan to deposit the medals with the President.
3. IESM appeals to all ESM across the country to volunteer deposit the medals to strengthen the Movement for getting Justice to the Defence Personnel, the most important demand being the grant of OROP. It is pertinent to mention that an old pensioner Sepoy with 17 years of service gets a pension of Rs 3500/-per month only where as a Sepoy retiring after 2006 with same years of service gets a Pension of Rs 7045/- per month. This is totally unjust, illegal and happens only in our Country.
4. You are requested to kindly publish this in your news paper/carry it in your news channel/magazine /periodicals and also cover the event on 25 Oct 2009 between 10 AM to 3 PM at Jantar Mantar, New Delhi.
With Kind Regards,
Jai Hind
Yours Sincerely,
Maj Gen (Retd) Satbir Singh, SM
Wednesday, October 14, 2009
Views from UK...Veteran rajinder singh rajput
From: RSingh305@aol.com [mailto:RSingh305@aol.com]
Sent: 13 October 2009 04:00
To: Kamboj Chander
Subject: Re: ESM SITREP OF 12 OCT 09 - "REPORT MY SIGNAL" - EMAIL 709/2009 - 12 OCT 0...
In a message dated 12/10/2009 18:56:42 GMT Standard Time, kamboj@itintellectuals.com writes:
· Issue of membership cards is to be undertaken expeditiously. A simple card will be designed showing the minimum essential details and printed on priority. This will then be despatched to members by postal mail.
-------------------------------
Dear Sir,
What a great idea to issue membership cards.
Please get the estimate for COST of printing these and appeal for volunteer donors. Even if you have the funds, extra bit can always be welcome.
I think you will have tremendous response and all the expense will be taken care of at once.
Needless to say that you are doing great service to the cause. We have great admiration for your hard work.
Rajinder Singh Rajput
Veteran
UK
Sent: 13 October 2009 04:00
To: Kamboj Chander
Subject: Re: ESM SITREP OF 12 OCT 09 - "REPORT MY SIGNAL" - EMAIL 709/2009 - 12 OCT 0...
In a message dated 12/10/2009 18:56:42 GMT Standard Time, kamboj@itintellectuals.com writes:
· Issue of membership cards is to be undertaken expeditiously. A simple card will be designed showing the minimum essential details and printed on priority. This will then be despatched to members by postal mail.
-------------------------------
Dear Sir,
What a great idea to issue membership cards.
Please get the estimate for COST of printing these and appeal for volunteer donors. Even if you have the funds, extra bit can always be welcome.
I think you will have tremendous response and all the expense will be taken care of at once.
Needless to say that you are doing great service to the cause. We have great admiration for your hard work.
Rajinder Singh Rajput
Veteran
UK
Tuesday, October 13, 2009
OROP views by Cdr RW Pathak ...reply to Sunil Makse
Dear Sunil Maske
There is absolutely no confusion.The Fin Min and Def Min merely announced that the Government has given OROP to JCO and below(Fin Min) and also to officers(Def Min).Mere words.There are no orders so far and no indication of when and how.
As announced they have merely created two groups instead of three by bringing pre 1997 retirees at par with pre 2006 retirees.
Please dont believe any thing till we get the actual orders.
Brgds
R W Pathak
******************************
Sunil Maske
Dear sir,
we are bit confused about OROP, is it possible for you to deliver some ideas on it, no rush when you get chance please
With regards
Sunil Makse Ex PO
Security Specialist
UK
Together we can...
There is absolutely no confusion.The Fin Min and Def Min merely announced that the Government has given OROP to JCO and below(Fin Min) and also to officers(Def Min).Mere words.There are no orders so far and no indication of when and how.
As announced they have merely created two groups instead of three by bringing pre 1997 retirees at par with pre 2006 retirees.
Please dont believe any thing till we get the actual orders.
Brgds
R W Pathak
******************************
Sunil Maske
Dear sir,
we are bit confused about OROP, is it possible for you to deliver some ideas on it, no rush when you get chance please
With regards
Sunil Makse Ex PO
Security Specialist
UK
Together we can...
Views of Veteran Bhupal singh from Australia
Dear Gen Raj,
Thanx for the update reg Steering Committee Meeting. May I offer few suggestions--
a. The paper for OROP petition should be circulated through the
RMS Blog and suggestions invited from the ESM on the net.
Suitable suggestions should then be incorporated in the
petition before submitting to authorities concerned.
b. The Membership cards shoild be of electronic variety like those
of CSD or ECHS or Cr Cards etc and of longer life material.
c. I have submitted few times in the past also that in our country
the authorities do not give any significant thought to written
representations. Of course exceptions are there. I have sugges-
red in the past also that we must hold a rally of the magnitude
of over at least 200,000 ESM ( including fammilies of ESM)
to create an impact on the general public, media, politicians at
large and the Govt Authorities. Our age old concept of sticking
to soldiely ethics do no not cause any tangible impact.Our past
Rallies did not cause significant impact ( I do not mean to say
that those rallies were ineffective or were a waste ). In our
country unless the roads are choked and the traffic come to
stand still, no one takes note of the rallies. The Rally need not
be violent. But if it is massive in nature with lot of slogans
( which should be positive in nature ), banners & billboards
etc, it will certainly leave lasting impression on all those who
matter. This suggestion should be discussed by the Steering
Committee not only amongst themselves but with the Regional
/State Cells and then implemented.
2. With regards & best wishes to all,
Bhupal Singh, Veteran
Australia
Thanx for the update reg Steering Committee Meeting. May I offer few suggestions--
a. The paper for OROP petition should be circulated through the
RMS Blog and suggestions invited from the ESM on the net.
Suitable suggestions should then be incorporated in the
petition before submitting to authorities concerned.
b. The Membership cards shoild be of electronic variety like those
of CSD or ECHS or Cr Cards etc and of longer life material.
c. I have submitted few times in the past also that in our country
the authorities do not give any significant thought to written
representations. Of course exceptions are there. I have sugges-
red in the past also that we must hold a rally of the magnitude
of over at least 200,000 ESM ( including fammilies of ESM)
to create an impact on the general public, media, politicians at
large and the Govt Authorities. Our age old concept of sticking
to soldiely ethics do no not cause any tangible impact.Our past
Rallies did not cause significant impact ( I do not mean to say
that those rallies were ineffective or were a waste ). In our
country unless the roads are choked and the traffic come to
stand still, no one takes note of the rallies. The Rally need not
be violent. But if it is massive in nature with lot of slogans
( which should be positive in nature ), banners & billboards
etc, it will certainly leave lasting impression on all those who
matter. This suggestion should be discussed by the Steering
Committee not only amongst themselves but with the Regional
/State Cells and then implemented.
2. With regards & best wishes to all,
Bhupal Singh, Veteran
Australia
Wednesday, October 7, 2009
Thursday, September 17, 2009
Views By V Adm Harinder Singh , President NFDC about..IESL
Dear Brig Gulia,
I think the IESL has had several meetings with the big wigs in the South Block and few have been attended by NFDC rep to butteress our common case. We have been disappointed with the results and feel that these meetings have been, continue to be a waste of time, serve the ends of one ESM and only help the MOD in delaying every thing and give an impression that they want to help us. Your letter / discussions contain nothing but what we have gone over on several occasions and in several fora and can hardly be considered a success other that to advertise IESL.
NFDC has reviewed our current status of collaboration with other ESM Organisations in the light of our failure to get our demands met by the GOI and the failure of some of the ESM organisation to deliver on their promises and therefore want to disassociate our selves from all such future joint efforts.
NFDC will here after revert to our independence and will independently decide on our way ahead to achieve our goals. No NFDC rep will hereafter liasion or co-ordinate with IESM. All issues may please be referred to me or other Navy Foundation office bearers.
Thanks and Regards
I think the IESL has had several meetings with the big wigs in the South Block and few have been attended by NFDC rep to butteress our common case. We have been disappointed with the results and feel that these meetings have been, continue to be a waste of time, serve the ends of one ESM and only help the MOD in delaying every thing and give an impression that they want to help us. Your letter / discussions contain nothing but what we have gone over on several occasions and in several fora and can hardly be considered a success other that to advertise IESL.
NFDC has reviewed our current status of collaboration with other ESM Organisations in the light of our failure to get our demands met by the GOI and the failure of some of the ESM organisation to deliver on their promises and therefore want to disassociate our selves from all such future joint efforts.
NFDC will here after revert to our independence and will independently decide on our way ahead to achieve our goals. No NFDC rep will hereafter liasion or co-ordinate with IESM. All issues may please be referred to me or other Navy Foundation office bearers.
Thanks and Regards
Tuesday, September 15, 2009
PR Cell Of IESM..by Brig Nangpal
Dear Gen Kadyan,
A thought has been crossing my mind for some time, which i thought of sharing with you all.
For any movement to succeed, it must have a powerful & convincing PR. Hence i feel we must have a strong PR Cell. Composition is a matter detail.
Also in the meantime we should creat some CDs on various aspects of the movement and put them on social web sites to reach out to broader aection of the society in India & abroad. The sites like You Tube, Face book etc are some such ones.
Resouce constraints would be there but the dividends could be out of proportion.
Best wishes & regards
Brig J K Nangpal
A thought has been crossing my mind for some time, which i thought of sharing with you all.
For any movement to succeed, it must have a powerful & convincing PR. Hence i feel we must have a strong PR Cell. Composition is a matter detail.
Also in the meantime we should creat some CDs on various aspects of the movement and put them on social web sites to reach out to broader aection of the society in India & abroad. The sites like You Tube, Face book etc are some such ones.
Resouce constraints would be there but the dividends could be out of proportion.
Best wishes & regards
Brig J K Nangpal
MY TAKE ON MR PRAVEEN DAVAR..Cdr KK Punchhi..Canada
Krishan K Punchhi
Dear Friends,
Here is my take on Mr Praveen Davar. Correct me if I'm wrong.
He is the son of a Congress politician and a freedom fighter. It is unfortunate but true, these self styled 'freedom fighters' are blood suckers. They never fought and they are only after power, pelf and money by way of pension etc. I have a relative in this category and I ought to know.
I think Praveen joined the army by mistake. I think he went into armoured corps for the glamour and easy life as compared to the infantry etc. That he went into battle soon after he was commissioned in 1971 must have scared the daylights out of him. If he displayed even an iota of dash and bravery, his politician father would have managed a medal for him and it would have been flaunted. After 71 war he must have had nice cushy postings till he was appointed as ADC to a governor for the last three years of his service. He was out after 10 years of service, the earliest time that one can get gratuity and leave. Again, how many NDA trained have been able to leave after 10 years -- maybe only those who have a clout.
His assertions and writings have a distinct dishonourable stink about them. They are political waffles which a true veteran cannot ever indulge in.
Could some veterans who served with him please give us the facts ?
Regards........................K K Punchhi
Dear Friends,
Here is my take on Mr Praveen Davar. Correct me if I'm wrong.
He is the son of a Congress politician and a freedom fighter. It is unfortunate but true, these self styled 'freedom fighters' are blood suckers. They never fought and they are only after power, pelf and money by way of pension etc. I have a relative in this category and I ought to know.
I think Praveen joined the army by mistake. I think he went into armoured corps for the glamour and easy life as compared to the infantry etc. That he went into battle soon after he was commissioned in 1971 must have scared the daylights out of him. If he displayed even an iota of dash and bravery, his politician father would have managed a medal for him and it would have been flaunted. After 71 war he must have had nice cushy postings till he was appointed as ADC to a governor for the last three years of his service. He was out after 10 years of service, the earliest time that one can get gratuity and leave. Again, how many NDA trained have been able to leave after 10 years -- maybe only those who have a clout.
His assertions and writings have a distinct dishonourable stink about them. They are political waffles which a true veteran cannot ever indulge in.
Could some veterans who served with him please give us the facts ?
Regards........................K K Punchhi
A LETTER TO THE EDITOR THE TIMES OF INDIA
From: subhash kapoor sckaps@yahoo.co.in
To: mytimesmyvoice@timesgroup.com
Cc: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in; TRUNCATED.
Sent: Monday, 14 September, 2009 9:33:16 AM
Subject: A LETTER TO THE EDITOR THE TIMES OF INDIA
WANTED: INFORMATIVE IMPARTIAL INTERACTIVE INDIAN MEDIA (W:IIIIM)
A LETTER TO THE EDITOR THE TIMES OF INDIA
To:
The Editor
The Times of India
Sir:
GOOD SHOW, MR. EDITOR!
This is with reference to the news report in The Times of India (September 14) regarding the return of 5,000 medals by the Ex-Servicemen because of the ourstanding grievances and grave injustices done to the military personnel over the past decades in matters such as quantum/uniformity in pay/pension, absence of a well laid down tamper-proof system of employment opportunites for them after mandatory retirement at an early age, continuous lowering of their status vis-a-vis other government employees, shortage of family accommodation, distortions in a just working relationship between the Civil and Defence wings of the state, and many other issues of similar nature. The powers that be should pay immediate attention to these problems to make for a perfectly fighting fit, ever combat-ready and highly motivated Armed Forces.
THANKS, MR. EDITOR, FOR CARRYING THIS PTI NEWS AGENCY REPORT IN THE TIMES OF INDIA. WE FEEL HAPPY WHILE APPRECIATING THIS GESTURE OF YOURS. THIS IS A GOOD START MADE. PLEASE DO KEEP IT UP WITHOUT OUR HAVING TO REMIND YOU.
THE TIMES OF INDIA, MORE THAN MANY OTHER NEWSPAPERS, HAS A GREAT ROLE TO PLAY IN MOULDING PUBLIC OPINION TO MAKE OUR ARMED FORCES AN IMPREGNABLE BULWARK OF SECURITY AND FREEDOM IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN INDIA'S TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY, UNITY, PROSPERITY AND HONOUR.
Warm regards--and have a nice day, Sir.
Sincerely,
SC Kapoor
Wing Commander (retd)
E-145, Sector 21
To: mytimesmyvoice@timesgroup.com
Cc: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in; TRUNCATED.
Sent: Monday, 14 September, 2009 9:33:16 AM
Subject: A LETTER TO THE EDITOR THE TIMES OF INDIA
WANTED: INFORMATIVE IMPARTIAL INTERACTIVE INDIAN MEDIA (W:IIIIM)
A LETTER TO THE EDITOR THE TIMES OF INDIA
To:
The Editor
The Times of India
Sir:
GOOD SHOW, MR. EDITOR!
This is with reference to the news report in The Times of India (September 14) regarding the return of 5,000 medals by the Ex-Servicemen because of the ourstanding grievances and grave injustices done to the military personnel over the past decades in matters such as quantum/uniformity in pay/pension, absence of a well laid down tamper-proof system of employment opportunites for them after mandatory retirement at an early age, continuous lowering of their status vis-a-vis other government employees, shortage of family accommodation, distortions in a just working relationship between the Civil and Defence wings of the state, and many other issues of similar nature. The powers that be should pay immediate attention to these problems to make for a perfectly fighting fit, ever combat-ready and highly motivated Armed Forces.
THANKS, MR. EDITOR, FOR CARRYING THIS PTI NEWS AGENCY REPORT IN THE TIMES OF INDIA. WE FEEL HAPPY WHILE APPRECIATING THIS GESTURE OF YOURS. THIS IS A GOOD START MADE. PLEASE DO KEEP IT UP WITHOUT OUR HAVING TO REMIND YOU.
THE TIMES OF INDIA, MORE THAN MANY OTHER NEWSPAPERS, HAS A GREAT ROLE TO PLAY IN MOULDING PUBLIC OPINION TO MAKE OUR ARMED FORCES AN IMPREGNABLE BULWARK OF SECURITY AND FREEDOM IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN INDIA'S TERRITORIAL INTEGRITY, UNITY, PROSPERITY AND HONOUR.
Warm regards--and have a nice day, Sir.
Sincerely,
SC Kapoor
Wing Commander (retd)
E-145, Sector 21
fantastic show of the IESM's-"Returning of Medals"
From: subhash bhutani subhashbhutani@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, 14 September, 2009 7:15:05 AM
Subject: fantastic show of the IESM's-"Returning of Medals"
Sir!
Fantastic show. Please accept my heartiest CONGRATULATIONS for the fantastic show (of DEPOSITION of MEDALS that were won by the ESMs) that was very well organised, peaceful and with restrained & composed remarks while presenting the points of view of the ESMs against the apathetic attitude of the ruling UPA Gov't towards THE ONLY DISCIPLINED PILLAR of our democracy. The Gov't MUST pay attention to the JUST DEMANDs of the quiet and those who NORMALLY follow the DIKTATs (most of the time UNJUST)of the powers THAT BE, without raising ANY QUESTI ONs. May God give SUFFICIENT and ENOUGH REASONING to our rulers to see things in the RIGHT PERSPECTIVE and REALITY dawns on them.
I wish I could take an active part in this show of ESM Strength that proved, if there was ever any doubt, that UNITED WE STAND.
Please convey my sincerest BEST WISHES for future actions/shows.
With regards,
Wg Cdr Subhash Bhutani (Retd),
Presently in the USA at:
C/O Mr Manish Kalia,
1713, Winston Street,
San Jose,
CA-95131,
USA
Sent: Monday, 14 September, 2009 7:15:05 AM
Subject: fantastic show of the IESM's-"Returning of Medals"
Sir!
Fantastic show. Please accept my heartiest CONGRATULATIONS for the fantastic show (of DEPOSITION of MEDALS that were won by the ESMs) that was very well organised, peaceful and with restrained & composed remarks while presenting the points of view of the ESMs against the apathetic attitude of the ruling UPA Gov't towards THE ONLY DISCIPLINED PILLAR of our democracy. The Gov't MUST pay attention to the JUST DEMANDs of the quiet and those who NORMALLY follow the DIKTATs (most of the time UNJUST)of the powers THAT BE, without raising ANY QUESTI ONs. May God give SUFFICIENT and ENOUGH REASONING to our rulers to see things in the RIGHT PERSPECTIVE and REALITY dawns on them.
I wish I could take an active part in this show of ESM Strength that proved, if there was ever any doubt, that UNITED WE STAND.
Please convey my sincerest BEST WISHES for future actions/shows.
With regards,
Wg Cdr Subhash Bhutani (Retd),
Presently in the USA at:
C/O Mr Manish Kalia,
1713, Winston Street,
San Jose,
CA-95131,
USA
MISSION OF IESM ON 13 SEP 09 - FULLY SUCCESSFUL by Maj Bhupal singh from australia
From: bhupal singh bsec234@hotmail.com
To: KADYAN Lt Gen RAJ rajkadyan@yahoo.com
Cc: Kamboj Chander kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Sent: Monday, 14 September, 2009 9:14:17 AM
Subject: RE: MISSION OF IESM ON 13 SEP 09 - FULLY SUCCESSFUL - EMAIL 674/2009 - 13 SEP 09 - (A to B)
Dear Gen Raj,
I am delighted about the success of MISSION DEPOSITING OF MEDALS on 13 Sep 09. It is indeed another step fwd in our movement to achieve our aim of OROP . The credit goes to all the Members of the Core Team and the Heads of the Regional Cells of our Movement for the untiring efforts , ably led by you. I take this opportunity to congratulate all of you for the success of the Mission and pray for similar success in future too.
2. May I request you to let us know the further course of action being planned/taken by our Movement ?
Also may I suggest that we should hold a massive ( say at least of about 100,000 ESM , including ladies/families & civilians, if possible ) peacefull Rally at Delhi on 02 Oct 2009, on the occasion of Birth Anniversary of Father of the Nation, Mahatma Gandhi, who vehemently advocated peaceful massive agitations to achieve the aim of the movements led by him. As I have stressed in the past in my e-mails, unless such Rallies are Massive, they do not serve the dsired purpose i.e. cause any dent on the psyche of the Politicians & Bureaucrats etc.
The feeling which I have lately developed about our Movement is that we have somewhat become passive presently ( pardon me, if i have felt it wrongly). In order to revive intense feelings amongst Common Masses , the Media, the Authorities and the ESM at large about our Movement, a Massive show of strength on the streets ( aka roads ) is a must. Only then the Authorities may take note of the fact that we are still alive and we mean business . There is an famous axiom " Jab Tak Baccha Rota Nahin, Maa Doodh Nahin Pilati " , which translates somewhat like this..." Unless the Baby cries, the Mother Does Not Give the Feed ". Rest, I leave it to you all. I have no doubt that whatever action the highy learned & dedicated Core Group decide to take, it will bring us nearer to our objective.
3. As regards giving imeptus to enrollment of members and maknig the Movement broad-based, it imperative that we go down to villages and make the ESM of the lowest ranks aware of the anomalies in pension with actual facts & figures in writing in the form of LEAFLETS and motivate them to join the Movement in large Nos. In fact presently , as some of the ESM have already observed in their e-mails earlier, our Movement looks more officers led & oriented. Unless a large number of lowest rank ESM are actively involved in and made to lead our Movement, it may not show the desierd results sooner. Various methods have already been suggested by our experienced & able ESM through their e-mails to reach the ESM staying in far off nooks & corners of the country. It is now high time that we all got together to penetrate these nooks & corners to activate the Movement from the roots. As someone remarked, unless the roots are strong the tree above cannot flourish and live long.This is age old & proven principle and needs to be practised now without further delay.
More in my next e-mail on this.
4. With fond regards to all & my best wishes for the success of the Movement,
IC-10528 L
Maj Bhupal Singh, Veteran
MELBOURNE ( AUSTRALIA )
------------
To: KADYAN Lt Gen RAJ rajkadyan@yahoo.com
Cc: Kamboj Chander kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in
Sent: Monday, 14 September, 2009 9:14:17 AM
Subject: RE: MISSION OF IESM ON 13 SEP 09 - FULLY SUCCESSFUL - EMAIL 674/2009 - 13 SEP 09 - (A to B)
Dear Gen Raj,
I am delighted about the success of MISSION DEPOSITING OF MEDALS on 13 Sep 09. It is indeed another step fwd in our movement to achieve our aim of OROP . The credit goes to all the Members of the Core Team and the Heads of the Regional Cells of our Movement for the untiring efforts , ably led by you. I take this opportunity to congratulate all of you for the success of the Mission and pray for similar success in future too.
2. May I request you to let us know the further course of action being planned/taken by our Movement ?
Also may I suggest that we should hold a massive ( say at least of about 100,000 ESM , including ladies/families & civilians, if possible ) peacefull Rally at Delhi on 02 Oct 2009, on the occasion of Birth Anniversary of Father of the Nation, Mahatma Gandhi, who vehemently advocated peaceful massive agitations to achieve the aim of the movements led by him. As I have stressed in the past in my e-mails, unless such Rallies are Massive, they do not serve the dsired purpose i.e. cause any dent on the psyche of the Politicians & Bureaucrats etc.
The feeling which I have lately developed about our Movement is that we have somewhat become passive presently ( pardon me, if i have felt it wrongly). In order to revive intense feelings amongst Common Masses , the Media, the Authorities and the ESM at large about our Movement, a Massive show of strength on the streets ( aka roads ) is a must. Only then the Authorities may take note of the fact that we are still alive and we mean business . There is an famous axiom " Jab Tak Baccha Rota Nahin, Maa Doodh Nahin Pilati " , which translates somewhat like this..." Unless the Baby cries, the Mother Does Not Give the Feed ". Rest, I leave it to you all. I have no doubt that whatever action the highy learned & dedicated Core Group decide to take, it will bring us nearer to our objective.
3. As regards giving imeptus to enrollment of members and maknig the Movement broad-based, it imperative that we go down to villages and make the ESM of the lowest ranks aware of the anomalies in pension with actual facts & figures in writing in the form of LEAFLETS and motivate them to join the Movement in large Nos. In fact presently , as some of the ESM have already observed in their e-mails earlier, our Movement looks more officers led & oriented. Unless a large number of lowest rank ESM are actively involved in and made to lead our Movement, it may not show the desierd results sooner. Various methods have already been suggested by our experienced & able ESM through their e-mails to reach the ESM staying in far off nooks & corners of the country. It is now high time that we all got together to penetrate these nooks & corners to activate the Movement from the roots. As someone remarked, unless the roots are strong the tree above cannot flourish and live long.This is age old & proven principle and needs to be practised now without further delay.
More in my next e-mail on this.
4. With fond regards to all & my best wishes for the success of the Movement,
IC-10528 L
Maj Bhupal Singh, Veteran
MELBOURNE ( AUSTRALIA )
------------
Monday, September 14, 2009
Mail from Cdr Prem Batra and reply from Gen Kadyan
Dear Veteran Batra,
Acknowledged with thanks
Best regards,
Lt Gen (Emeritus) Raj Kadyan, PVSM, AVSM, VSM
Chairman IESM
262, Sector-17A
Gurgaon- 122 001
Tele: 91+124-4015262
+919811226676
From: prem parkash batra
To: rajkadyan@yahoo.com; kamboj@itintellectuals.com
Sent: Tuesday, 15 September, 2009 11:02:15 AM
Subject: Fw: MINUTES OF ALL INDIA ESM MEET HELD ON 30 AUG 09 AT NOIDA - EMAIL 675/2009 - 14 SEP 09 - (A to B)
Lt Gen Raj Kadyan
Brig CS Kamboj
Dear Sirs,
1. Let me restate with all the power of this small write that you and your Steering Committee and your Core Group are doing a marvelous job at IESM and in due course History would appreciate your splendid efforts done with heart and soul, without seeking rewards.
2. The sense I get from the Minutes of All India ESM meet on 30th August 09 at NOIDA is that the wrap up was almost predetermined before the All India meet. Please permit me to put forth my think, more as an outsider than insider but with heart and soul and one who is passionate about matters of ESM.
3. Indian Polity has accepted the suitability of Parliament Democracy and not the US type Presidential System or the hybrid governance system of let us say France. The Supreme Court has more than once clearly pronounced that in Indian Democracy, no single person can be vested with all the powers. It has to be collective wisdom. But the wrap up in essence conveyed Presidential IESM structure. One need not apply RTI here. But let us be clear that we are dealing with multiple authority as it happens in Parliamentary Democrat. No one can work in splendid isolation to deal with the challenges.
4. I would like to think that IESM is not engaged in Military War or Battle. We are dealing with the polity of the entire nation made up of many parts. We need to reckon the underpinning of the GOI and the Political and Bureaucratic Classes and the Masses and the powerful media in listening to public opinion on may fronts like Economy, Poverty, Agriculture and so on. The PM is one amongst equal in the Cabinet just like the CJI is one amongst the Supreme Court Judges. Yet the PM had mandated objectives to be achieved in the first 100 days of UPA-2, as per CPM or what ever else including pulls of Yuvraj. Then why this mandated single focus. I think there was a strong pitch for inclusion of PBORs in your Committees at the High Tables, for instance.
5. What is the use of creating these Cells if they are going to deal with routine, surely with some life affecting problems of the ESM. I would have liked to think that a conscious effort would have been made at making a long term Charter for each Cell along with the 100 days plan of action and results to be expected. It is my view that before the Cell is created, its Charter and terms of reference should have been placed in IESM domain and seriously considered the various in puts. Just please look around, that is what GOI is doing by putting on new legislation or Acts or Executive Orders on their Websites and at Seminars, etc, though they may be obtaining doctored inputs.
6. It therefore follows that the Cells created and headed by eminent Generals should come out with their Charter. Perhaps inputs may be invited from IESM rather than top down hand outs.
7. It is my sincere request that the above be taken in the spirit in which it is put rather than with usual closed lips words.
With best regards,
Prem Batra
Acknowledged with thanks
Best regards,
Lt Gen (Emeritus) Raj Kadyan, PVSM, AVSM, VSM
Chairman IESM
262, Sector-17A
Gurgaon- 122 001
Tele: 91+124-4015262
+919811226676
From: prem parkash batra
To: rajkadyan@yahoo.com; kamboj@itintellectuals.com
Sent: Tuesday, 15 September, 2009 11:02:15 AM
Subject: Fw: MINUTES OF ALL INDIA ESM MEET HELD ON 30 AUG 09 AT NOIDA - EMAIL 675/2009 - 14 SEP 09 - (A to B)
Lt Gen Raj Kadyan
Brig CS Kamboj
Dear Sirs,
1. Let me restate with all the power of this small write that you and your Steering Committee and your Core Group are doing a marvelous job at IESM and in due course History would appreciate your splendid efforts done with heart and soul, without seeking rewards.
2. The sense I get from the Minutes of All India ESM meet on 30th August 09 at NOIDA is that the wrap up was almost predetermined before the All India meet. Please permit me to put forth my think, more as an outsider than insider but with heart and soul and one who is passionate about matters of ESM.
3. Indian Polity has accepted the suitability of Parliament Democracy and not the US type Presidential System or the hybrid governance system of let us say France. The Supreme Court has more than once clearly pronounced that in Indian Democracy, no single person can be vested with all the powers. It has to be collective wisdom. But the wrap up in essence conveyed Presidential IESM structure. One need not apply RTI here. But let us be clear that we are dealing with multiple authority as it happens in Parliamentary Democrat. No one can work in splendid isolation to deal with the challenges.
4. I would like to think that IESM is not engaged in Military War or Battle. We are dealing with the polity of the entire nation made up of many parts. We need to reckon the underpinning of the GOI and the Political and Bureaucratic Classes and the Masses and the powerful media in listening to public opinion on may fronts like Economy, Poverty, Agriculture and so on. The PM is one amongst equal in the Cabinet just like the CJI is one amongst the Supreme Court Judges. Yet the PM had mandated objectives to be achieved in the first 100 days of UPA-2, as per CPM or what ever else including pulls of Yuvraj. Then why this mandated single focus. I think there was a strong pitch for inclusion of PBORs in your Committees at the High Tables, for instance.
5. What is the use of creating these Cells if they are going to deal with routine, surely with some life affecting problems of the ESM. I would have liked to think that a conscious effort would have been made at making a long term Charter for each Cell along with the 100 days plan of action and results to be expected. It is my view that before the Cell is created, its Charter and terms of reference should have been placed in IESM domain and seriously considered the various in puts. Just please look around, that is what GOI is doing by putting on new legislation or Acts or Executive Orders on their Websites and at Seminars, etc, though they may be obtaining doctored inputs.
6. It therefore follows that the Cells created and headed by eminent Generals should come out with their Charter. Perhaps inputs may be invited from IESM rather than top down hand outs.
7. It is my sincere request that the above be taken in the spirit in which it is put rather than with usual closed lips words.
With best regards,
Prem Batra
CONGRESS EX-SERVICEMEN CELL ATTEMPTS TO MISLEAD THE ESM ABOUT OROP -
From: MK Jain mohann35@yahoo.co.uk
To: exserviceme.congress@gmail.com
Cc: Chander Kamboj kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in ; raj kadyan rajkadyan@yahoo.com
Sent: Sunday, 13 September, 2009 2:28:40 PM
Subject: Re: CONGRESS EX-SERVICEMEN CELL ATTEMPTS TO MISLEAD THE ESM ABOUT OROP - EMAIL 672/2009 - 12 SEP 09 - (H to L)
Most respected Mr Davar,
Your att mail has given us sodiers/ex-soldiers cause for worry regarding future of this already harassed and beleaguered country. You probably in your enthusiasm to glorify your party, put numerous tactical failures of INC over the last 62 years on the backburner. To set the record straight, these are briefly recounted as under:-
(1) KASHMIR " problem ", over which astronomical sum of money has infructuously been spent and an un-specified no. of lives lost. Nothing achieved except rise in insurgency/terrorism etc.
(2) The most shameful and INFAMOUS 1962 Sino-Indian war, when troops were made to defend the sovereignty of our territory in the high altitude/snow-bound areas most inadequately attired ( cotton shirts etc). Incompetence of leadership of those times has been chronicled very broadly over the years. There was one ray of hope in the persona of LAL BAHADUR SHASTRI, who emerged to teach the enemy an abject lesson in the 1965 Indo-Pak war,and restored our lost glory. But alas, he was eliminated under "mysterious" circumstances. In any case, he was an 'odd-man out' in the INC hierarchy and could be inconvenient to them in the long run.
He gave us the dictum:'JAI JAWAN,JAI KISAN'.
Where has the 'JAWAN' vanished?
(3) BANGLADESH war 1971. It turned out to be a thoroughly thankless job and resulted in a worthless " Shimla Agreement ". A solid bargaining point was lost by returning their 93,000 POWs on a plate; we could've got anything in return- eg KASHMIR!
(4) Sending IPKF to Sri Lanka without any tactical knowledge of the terrain etc, losing precious lives of officers & men, getting our PM hit by the butt of their soldier's rifle!
These are some glaring examples. All the govts are fond of using troops to 'HELP' civil authorities since their administrations fail owing to numerous factors like incompetence, lack of will etc. They most readily gave plentiful goodies/bounties to all the rest, leaving the hapless soldiers out in the cold to fend for themselves. Unfortunately, they can't even protest!
Since 1947, INC has achived just one thing in our 'favour' viz. in connivance with their brilliant BUREAUCARACY,degraded us at every stage in every cunning way. This has been our reward. Why not some of your 'worthy' ministers ever visit countries and find out how they respect their soldiers/veterans.
ANYHOW OUR REQUEST IS :
DONOT TWIST FACTS & FIGURES FOR THE SAKE OF CHEAP POPULARITY. YOU KNOW : IT HURTS BADLY.
WITH REGARDS,
VETERAN JAIN .
To: exserviceme.congress@gmail.com
Cc: Chander Kamboj kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in ; raj kadyan rajkadyan@yahoo.com
Sent: Sunday, 13 September, 2009 2:28:40 PM
Subject: Re: CONGRESS EX-SERVICEMEN CELL ATTEMPTS TO MISLEAD THE ESM ABOUT OROP - EMAIL 672/2009 - 12 SEP 09 - (H to L)
Most respected Mr Davar,
Your att mail has given us sodiers/ex-soldiers cause for worry regarding future of this already harassed and beleaguered country. You probably in your enthusiasm to glorify your party, put numerous tactical failures of INC over the last 62 years on the backburner. To set the record straight, these are briefly recounted as under:-
(1) KASHMIR " problem ", over which astronomical sum of money has infructuously been spent and an un-specified no. of lives lost. Nothing achieved except rise in insurgency/terrorism etc.
(2) The most shameful and INFAMOUS 1962 Sino-Indian war, when troops were made to defend the sovereignty of our territory in the high altitude/snow-bound areas most inadequately attired ( cotton shirts etc). Incompetence of leadership of those times has been chronicled very broadly over the years. There was one ray of hope in the persona of LAL BAHADUR SHASTRI, who emerged to teach the enemy an abject lesson in the 1965 Indo-Pak war,and restored our lost glory. But alas, he was eliminated under "mysterious" circumstances. In any case, he was an 'odd-man out' in the INC hierarchy and could be inconvenient to them in the long run.
He gave us the dictum:'JAI JAWAN,JAI KISAN'.
Where has the 'JAWAN' vanished?
(3) BANGLADESH war 1971. It turned out to be a thoroughly thankless job and resulted in a worthless " Shimla Agreement ". A solid bargaining point was lost by returning their 93,000 POWs on a plate; we could've got anything in return- eg KASHMIR!
(4) Sending IPKF to Sri Lanka without any tactical knowledge of the terrain etc, losing precious lives of officers & men, getting our PM hit by the butt of their soldier's rifle!
These are some glaring examples. All the govts are fond of using troops to 'HELP' civil authorities since their administrations fail owing to numerous factors like incompetence, lack of will etc. They most readily gave plentiful goodies/bounties to all the rest, leaving the hapless soldiers out in the cold to fend for themselves. Unfortunately, they can't even protest!
Since 1947, INC has achived just one thing in our 'favour' viz. in connivance with their brilliant BUREAUCARACY,degraded us at every stage in every cunning way. This has been our reward. Why not some of your 'worthy' ministers ever visit countries and find out how they respect their soldiers/veterans.
ANYHOW OUR REQUEST IS :
DONOT TWIST FACTS & FIGURES FOR THE SAKE OF CHEAP POPULARITY. YOU KNOW : IT HURTS BADLY.
WITH REGARDS,
VETERAN JAIN .
Rejoinder to Praveen davar by Air Cmde Raghubir singh , Pune
From: Lt Gen K S Rao kantamnenirao@yahoo.com
Subject:
To: "V K Rao" vkrao@techconsultinc.com , gmnayar@gmail.com
Date: Monday, 14 September, 2009, 9:16 AM
...
From: raghubir_singh raghubir_singh@yahoo.com
Veterans may like to read my reply I sent this morning.
Dear Capt Praveen Davar,
1.Thanks for your e-mail . While lot of good things have happened in our country due to some pragmatic decisions taken by successive Govts over the last two decades or so – yet lot needs to be done. In the UPA-2 Hon'ble Kapil Sibal has virtually heralded renaissance in our education system-which has been my arena since my retirement more than 13 yrs back. We need similar dynamism in our even more critical Ministry of Defence. You will appreciate that our Armed Forces are the only bulwark against internal disintegration as well as external threats -now growing at menacing pace. Be it Kargils or natural disasters or even the 26/11's, the Services have always stood by the Nation. The ex-servicemen & the serving soldiers have perennial emotional bonding through regimental & squadron ties. The ex-servicemen looking from the sidelines do not feel happy when for example the Service Chiefs are denigrated through inspired & conspired editorials in the media or the men in uniform get pushed down the protocol ladder by one-up-man-ship.
2. Regarding OROP, once the Chairperson of the UPA had committed to it- the Govt should have conceded it gracefully instead of making all efforts to deny it by going in round about manner. Passing off some thing else as OROP especially in the present information age is counter productive. There seems to be forces working at cross purposes who have taken on themselves to deny the legitimate dues to those who have been giving so much for so little to so many of us. For example fixing an entire generation of officers during the 4th CPC as brought out in Major Dhanapalan's case etc shows the mindset which needs to be changed. Though I am no expert – OROP to me means same pension for same rank irrespective of the post & pre 2006 dividing line at least. Yes there could be harmonizing for total length or qualifying years of service if needed.
3. Eminent persons like you who have had the privilege to serve in the Armed Forces & now occupy important positions in the Party in Power can work towards rebuilding the trust with the ex-servicemen- who mostly remain apolitical. OROP has become an emotive issue & misinformation in this regard would serve no purpose.You may like to interact with Lt Gen Raj Kadiyan & Maj Gen Satbir Singh who have been espousing the cause of ex-servicemen & are in a better position to apprise you about the expectations which are not much. I would much appreciate if all MP's & party functionaries with services background come forward and take up the cause of Services including modernization, making service conditions attractive enough to attract the brightest of our young men to the profession of soldiering once again & looking after the veterans who gave their yester -years for our better tomorrows.
Regards
Air Cmde Raghubir Singh (Retd)
13, Prabhat Society,Bavdhan
NDA Road
Pune-411021
--------------
OROP By Col Gb Sethi
From: greh bhushan gb_sethi@yahoo.co.in
To: Lt Gen K S Rao kantamnenirao@yahoo.com
Cc: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in; satbirsm@yahoo.co.in; rajkadyan@yahoo.co.in; colonelrajan srinivas colonelrajan@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, 14 September, 2009 10:48:53 AM
Subject: Re: OROP
Dear Ge. Rao,
I appreciate Col. Yadav's very open and candid feelings & giving it back to Capt. Davar,who enjoys the benefits of his service & is holding a position, I am sure because of the service background. I am sure Capt. Davar will reflect after reading the response of Col.Yadav & have an introspection of what his blurred ideas about OROP is.
It is just unfortunate that our own clan is not able to fathom the gravity of the issue,and will not mind being sub-servient to the Babus. The degradation over the years in order of precedence,authority and general standing has taken such a beating that situation seems totally hopeless. Our slogans "IZZAT & IQBAL" seems to be of no consequence to them.
Our country's foundation is supposed to be laid on its Ethos, Commitments & Culture of its own origin. We trust each other and are sure of the commitment once it is made. Imagine the fall & down gradation in our commitment. The President Of India, The Supreme Commander Of the Armed Forces making a statement in Parliament that OROP shall be implemented, similarly the Defence Minister & The Finance Minister making similar statements have gone back or have conveniently forgotten what they committed a few days back.
When the Calamity strikes the Govt. & the Babus only remember the services for rescue. So far our soldiers are committed to the obligation they take at the time of their entry in the services, imagine for a while they also forget their obligation as our Politicians do all the time including this time our Supreme Commander, Defence Minister & the Home Minister, the consequences could be different.
But we are proud that "JAAN JAYE PAR VACHAN NA JAYE", we would rather sacrifice our lives rather than go back on our commitment.
See the recent furore over ECONOMY CLASS TRAVEL by MP's. It was amazing to see all the MP's appearing on TV's for a change supporting each others because it affected them. who other wise make slanderous remarks on each others & do not hesitate even going to limits which are not accepted from any cultural society leave aside from the people's representatives.
Lot of water has passed under the bridge in the last one year, it is a WAKE UP CALL for The Government & I hope good sense prevails & the Babus stop policy of divide & rule and agree to a very small & legitimate request by the Services lest it is too late.
Jai Hind.
Col. Dr. GB Sethi,
9440859877
To: Lt Gen K S Rao kantamnenirao@yahoo.com
Cc: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in; satbirsm@yahoo.co.in; rajkadyan@yahoo.co.in; colonelrajan srinivas colonelrajan@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, 14 September, 2009 10:48:53 AM
Subject: Re: OROP
Dear Ge. Rao,
I appreciate Col. Yadav's very open and candid feelings & giving it back to Capt. Davar,who enjoys the benefits of his service & is holding a position, I am sure because of the service background. I am sure Capt. Davar will reflect after reading the response of Col.Yadav & have an introspection of what his blurred ideas about OROP is.
It is just unfortunate that our own clan is not able to fathom the gravity of the issue,and will not mind being sub-servient to the Babus. The degradation over the years in order of precedence,authority and general standing has taken such a beating that situation seems totally hopeless. Our slogans "IZZAT & IQBAL" seems to be of no consequence to them.
Our country's foundation is supposed to be laid on its Ethos, Commitments & Culture of its own origin. We trust each other and are sure of the commitment once it is made. Imagine the fall & down gradation in our commitment. The President Of India, The Supreme Commander Of the Armed Forces making a statement in Parliament that OROP shall be implemented, similarly the Defence Minister & The Finance Minister making similar statements have gone back or have conveniently forgotten what they committed a few days back.
When the Calamity strikes the Govt. & the Babus only remember the services for rescue. So far our soldiers are committed to the obligation they take at the time of their entry in the services, imagine for a while they also forget their obligation as our Politicians do all the time including this time our Supreme Commander, Defence Minister & the Home Minister, the consequences could be different.
But we are proud that "JAAN JAYE PAR VACHAN NA JAYE", we would rather sacrifice our lives rather than go back on our commitment.
See the recent furore over ECONOMY CLASS TRAVEL by MP's. It was amazing to see all the MP's appearing on TV's for a change supporting each others because it affected them. who other wise make slanderous remarks on each others & do not hesitate even going to limits which are not accepted from any cultural society leave aside from the people's representatives.
Lot of water has passed under the bridge in the last one year, it is a WAKE UP CALL for The Government & I hope good sense prevails & the Babus stop policy of divide & rule and agree to a very small & legitimate request by the Services lest it is too late.
Jai Hind.
Col. Dr. GB Sethi,
9440859877
Shocking Praveen Davar
From: Col Veeramani colveeramani@yahoo.com
To: exservicemencongress@gmail.com
Cc: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in; rajkadyan@yahoo.com
Sent: Sunday, 13 September, 2009 6:55:00 PM
Subject: Shocking
Dear Mr praveen Davar,
I do not know whether you are an Ex service man or a civilian. If you are an Ex service man, it is a shocking news that you do not know what is the meaning of OROP. Please do not try and do chamcha giri to UPA, who deserve only scoldings, and sincere curses from all Veterans and serving persons. Kindly refrain from misleading people.Brig Kamboj has sent a very mild reply to you. You deserve a very strongly worded reply.
Col Veeramani
To: exservicemencongress@gmail.com
Cc: kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in; rajkadyan@yahoo.com
Sent: Sunday, 13 September, 2009 6:55:00 PM
Subject: Shocking
Dear Mr praveen Davar,
I do not know whether you are an Ex service man or a civilian. If you are an Ex service man, it is a shocking news that you do not know what is the meaning of OROP. Please do not try and do chamcha giri to UPA, who deserve only scoldings, and sincere curses from all Veterans and serving persons. Kindly refrain from misleading people.Brig Kamboj has sent a very mild reply to you. You deserve a very strongly worded reply.
Col Veeramani
Rejoinder to mail from Praveen Davar- Congress-ex-servicemen-welfare cell by Wg Cdr Shashank bendre
From: Wg.Cdr. Shashank Bendre bendresr@gmail.com
To: exservicemen.congress@gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, 13 September, 2009 12:44:13 PM
Subject: Rejoinder to mail from Praveen Davar- Congress-ex-servicemen-welfare cell
Dear Shri Praveen Davar,
Thank you for your mail "Welfare Ex-Servicemen", forwarded to all of us ex-servicemen.
I am very happy that the INC has a cell looking after the welfare of ex-servicemen, about the existence of which I and like me, many of my veteran colleagues were not aware.
I am a veteran from the Indian Air Force,a fact of which I am extremely proud. I have now attained the age of 70 yrs. and as an elderly person would like to present my views on what we expect from your cell.
At the outset, let me say that none of the ex-servicemen are satisfied with what your party has granted in the garb of OROP. It is nowhere near what is the conception of OROP in the minds of veterans. I am sure, that in future, you would maintain a close liaison with IESM which represents a large body of ex-servicemen, who will be able to present a better perspective of what the demand for OROP is. This will help you better in advising your party.
Besides that, there are many issues that rankle in the minds of ex as well as serving servicemen. The most important is the lowering of the status of Armed Forces personnel vis-a-vis their Civil counterparts. The status today is nowhere near what it was pre-independence. It might be argued that pre-independence era was different but I may remind your party that the result of neglect of Armed Forces and lowering its status was the 1962 debacle in the war with China. (The Gen. Henderson report is still kept under wraps as it is no secret that it will expose the failure of the then Congress Govt. in respect of the issue I am talking about). Moreover, even perhaps 5 to 6 years after independence the status was maintained though immediately post-independence, the salary of Armed Forces personnel was reduced (which has no precedent). and to the credit of the Armed Forces personnel, this was accepted in the right spirit thinking it was a one-time aberration. But subsequently, every step the Congress has taken, while in power at the centre is not in the interest of the servicemen community. The result is that there are not many volunteers for joining the Armed Forces as can be seen from the situation when there is a perpetual shortage of about 20% at the officer level in the three services. I would like to know what extra incentive is there for the young Indian to join the Armed Forces except "patriotism" (not to be equated with a Politician's patriotism) which makes him prepared to lay down his life for the country. Despite this, there are over 1.4 to 1.5 million of them serving the nation, fired by that ideal. But is it right on the part of the government to take advantage of that spirit and deny them their due? I am sure you would have heard or seen the esteem and regard in which the servicemen and even veterans are held in countries like the USA and UK. It has to be seen to be believed and I have experienced that personally. Can we say the same thing in India? No, because the leaders of the nation themselves have not recognised the worth of the Armed Forces. A nation which respects it's 'hero's will never have to worry about it's security.
Lastly, I would urge you to convince your partymen not to blindly led by the advice of the powerful IAS lobby. They have, in self-interest, been giving wrong advice to the Ministers. Look at the mess the 6th CPC, entirely composed of IAS and other Central Services, to the glaring exclusion of a single Servicemen's representative, made in respect of the Payband /Grade pay of Lt.Col. and Lt. gens.and equivalent ranks of the other two services which was partially rectified after a lot of dillydallying. Here, again, it was the adversarial attitude and ill-advised actions of the IAS lobby which led to the mess. This self-interest is bound to prove costly for the nation and consequently for interests of your party. In times of need-a war-god forbid it is not imposed on our nation- it will be the Armed Forces who will lay down their lives and not the chair-bound IAS personnel.
Please realise that there has been and still is a simmering discontent amongst the serving personnel from the lowest to the highest rank in the services. It is only that they do not openly display it because they are bound by the discipline of the service which puts nation above self-interest.
Regards,
Your's sincerely.
Shashank Bendre,
Wing Commander(Retd
To: exservicemen.congress@gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, 13 September, 2009 12:44:13 PM
Subject: Rejoinder to mail from Praveen Davar- Congress-ex-servicemen-welfare cell
Dear Shri Praveen Davar,
Thank you for your mail "Welfare Ex-Servicemen", forwarded to all of us ex-servicemen.
I am very happy that the INC has a cell looking after the welfare of ex-servicemen, about the existence of which I and like me, many of my veteran colleagues were not aware.
I am a veteran from the Indian Air Force,a fact of which I am extremely proud. I have now attained the age of 70 yrs. and as an elderly person would like to present my views on what we expect from your cell.
At the outset, let me say that none of the ex-servicemen are satisfied with what your party has granted in the garb of OROP. It is nowhere near what is the conception of OROP in the minds of veterans. I am sure, that in future, you would maintain a close liaison with IESM which represents a large body of ex-servicemen, who will be able to present a better perspective of what the demand for OROP is. This will help you better in advising your party.
Besides that, there are many issues that rankle in the minds of ex as well as serving servicemen. The most important is the lowering of the status of Armed Forces personnel vis-a-vis their Civil counterparts. The status today is nowhere near what it was pre-independence. It might be argued that pre-independence era was different but I may remind your party that the result of neglect of Armed Forces and lowering its status was the 1962 debacle in the war with China. (The Gen. Henderson report is still kept under wraps as it is no secret that it will expose the failure of the then Congress Govt. in respect of the issue I am talking about). Moreover, even perhaps 5 to 6 years after independence the status was maintained though immediately post-independence, the salary of Armed Forces personnel was reduced (which has no precedent). and to the credit of the Armed Forces personnel, this was accepted in the right spirit thinking it was a one-time aberration. But subsequently, every step the Congress has taken, while in power at the centre is not in the interest of the servicemen community. The result is that there are not many volunteers for joining the Armed Forces as can be seen from the situation when there is a perpetual shortage of about 20% at the officer level in the three services. I would like to know what extra incentive is there for the young Indian to join the Armed Forces except "patriotism" (not to be equated with a Politician's patriotism) which makes him prepared to lay down his life for the country. Despite this, there are over 1.4 to 1.5 million of them serving the nation, fired by that ideal. But is it right on the part of the government to take advantage of that spirit and deny them their due? I am sure you would have heard or seen the esteem and regard in which the servicemen and even veterans are held in countries like the USA and UK. It has to be seen to be believed and I have experienced that personally. Can we say the same thing in India? No, because the leaders of the nation themselves have not recognised the worth of the Armed Forces. A nation which respects it's 'hero's will never have to worry about it's security.
Lastly, I would urge you to convince your partymen not to blindly led by the advice of the powerful IAS lobby. They have, in self-interest, been giving wrong advice to the Ministers. Look at the mess the 6th CPC, entirely composed of IAS and other Central Services, to the glaring exclusion of a single Servicemen's representative, made in respect of the Payband /Grade pay of Lt.Col. and Lt. gens.and equivalent ranks of the other two services which was partially rectified after a lot of dillydallying. Here, again, it was the adversarial attitude and ill-advised actions of the IAS lobby which led to the mess. This self-interest is bound to prove costly for the nation and consequently for interests of your party. In times of need-a war-god forbid it is not imposed on our nation- it will be the Armed Forces who will lay down their lives and not the chair-bound IAS personnel.
Please realise that there has been and still is a simmering discontent amongst the serving personnel from the lowest to the highest rank in the services. It is only that they do not openly display it because they are bound by the discipline of the service which puts nation above self-interest.
Regards,
Your's sincerely.
Shashank Bendre,
Wing Commander(Retd
WELFARE VETERANS &OROP rejoinder by Brig Gangadharan to Praveen Davar
From: brigadier ptgangadharan brigadier.ptgangadharan@gmail.com
To: Praveen Davar exservicemen.congress@gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, 13 September, 2009 2:10:51 PM
Subject: WELFARE VETERANS &OROP
My Dear Mr Praveen,
1.Thank you for your mail on the welfare issues of Veterans, as approved by the UPA Govt ,on the recommendations of the Committee of Secretaries.
2.It is apparent from your mail, that you and the UPA functionaries are not aware of the concept of OROP.Therefore, the issues addressed are not even remotely touching its fringes.These have been projected unambiguously through various forums,particularly in the recent past, by Veterans.The extension of concessions as announced, has further added insult to the injury.More than anything else,it has hurt the interests of other ranks and junior officers.This award is yet another dexterous acts of self serving bureaucracy in manipulating their interest, both of status and emoluments,at the cost of the self sacrificing soldiers.
3.Downgrading the status of Defence Service personnel and reducing their emoluments vis-a-vis their civilian counterparts ,has been resorted to, for the past 60 years,and mostly under the Congress Govt.The final nail was hammered by the 6CPC,appointed by the UPA Govt.The only willing horse,holding the country together, despite all insults and injustices is being flogged beyond a limit.
A noble profession has no takers now, in the officer cadre.The effect of such neglect on the sovereignty of the Nation is not visualised by the Govt(Politicians),which depend totally on the bureaucracy for resolution of all issues.As perceived by the common citizens, most of the issues in any case are the result of the nexus between some of the unscrupulous politicians and the bureaucracy.
4.You may like to educate yourself and your colleagues on the actual problems and issues of Veterans, by understanding soldiers and their psyche.The present announcement by the UPA Govt has belied all hopes of a fair deal to the Veterans,by the current dispensation.
Yours most sincerely,
Brig PT Gangadharan,
Veteran( War wounded Disabled on Wheel Chair)
To: Praveen Davar exservicemen.congress@gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, 13 September, 2009 2:10:51 PM
Subject: WELFARE VETERANS &OROP
My Dear Mr Praveen,
1.Thank you for your mail on the welfare issues of Veterans, as approved by the UPA Govt ,on the recommendations of the Committee of Secretaries.
2.It is apparent from your mail, that you and the UPA functionaries are not aware of the concept of OROP.Therefore, the issues addressed are not even remotely touching its fringes.These have been projected unambiguously through various forums,particularly in the recent past, by Veterans.The extension of concessions as announced, has further added insult to the injury.More than anything else,it has hurt the interests of other ranks and junior officers.This award is yet another dexterous acts of self serving bureaucracy in manipulating their interest, both of status and emoluments,at the cost of the self sacrificing soldiers.
3.Downgrading the status of Defence Service personnel and reducing their emoluments vis-a-vis their civilian counterparts ,has been resorted to, for the past 60 years,and mostly under the Congress Govt.The final nail was hammered by the 6CPC,appointed by the UPA Govt.The only willing horse,holding the country together, despite all insults and injustices is being flogged beyond a limit.
A noble profession has no takers now, in the officer cadre.The effect of such neglect on the sovereignty of the Nation is not visualised by the Govt(Politicians),which depend totally on the bureaucracy for resolution of all issues.As perceived by the common citizens, most of the issues in any case are the result of the nexus between some of the unscrupulous politicians and the bureaucracy.
4.You may like to educate yourself and your colleagues on the actual problems and issues of Veterans, by understanding soldiers and their psyche.The present announcement by the UPA Govt has belied all hopes of a fair deal to the Veterans,by the current dispensation.
Yours most sincerely,
Brig PT Gangadharan,
Veteran( War wounded Disabled on Wheel Chair)
Sunday, September 13, 2009
Mail from Cdr R Pathak from pune to Praveen Davar
Dear Mr Praveen Davar
I am very grateful to you for the mail sent to various ESM organizations.It has given us a tremendous opportunity to educate our ESM(Veterans) on the manipulative skills of the INC and the UPA and how the Defence forces are still able to survive despite the very candid view of the First PM of India and a hallowed figure of the INC Mr Jawaharlal Nehru that INDIA DOES NOT NEED ARMED FORCES and ofcourse the valiant effort of INC's most damaging RM Mr Krishna Menon's attempt to convert Defence units into commercial production houses.
Dear Sir,we are thankful to Pakistan and the Chinese that hey have ensured survival of the Armed Forces in India by their actions.
I do not know if you have ever served in the Armed forces since you have not used any rank.But if you had then you should hang your head in shame for being a part of an organization that is bent upon making sure that the Defence forces are down and out in the Indian social milieu.
If you are not a veteran i can only say that this is the only thing we expect out of you mislead and spread wrong information and tell half truths.I am sorry but the INC has wronged the nation for too long with their sustained effort at fooling the gullible poor indian.
Please issue an immediate clarification to your mail clearly stating that OROP is not approved by the UPA and what has been granted as mere concessions and taken credit for is a discreet acceptance of the stand taken by the courts on certain issues.
I hope yoou have the courage to admit falsifying of information.
Brgds
Cdr R W Pathak I.N.(Retd)
Cdr Ravindra Waman Pathak I.N.(Retd)(Mobile 919822329340
I am very grateful to you for the mail sent to various ESM organizations.It has given us a tremendous opportunity to educate our ESM(Veterans) on the manipulative skills of the INC and the UPA and how the Defence forces are still able to survive despite the very candid view of the First PM of India and a hallowed figure of the INC Mr Jawaharlal Nehru that INDIA DOES NOT NEED ARMED FORCES and ofcourse the valiant effort of INC's most damaging RM Mr Krishna Menon's attempt to convert Defence units into commercial production houses.
Dear Sir,we are thankful to Pakistan and the Chinese that hey have ensured survival of the Armed Forces in India by their actions.
I do not know if you have ever served in the Armed forces since you have not used any rank.But if you had then you should hang your head in shame for being a part of an organization that is bent upon making sure that the Defence forces are down and out in the Indian social milieu.
If you are not a veteran i can only say that this is the only thing we expect out of you mislead and spread wrong information and tell half truths.I am sorry but the INC has wronged the nation for too long with their sustained effort at fooling the gullible poor indian.
Please issue an immediate clarification to your mail clearly stating that OROP is not approved by the UPA and what has been granted as mere concessions and taken credit for is a discreet acceptance of the stand taken by the courts on certain issues.
I hope yoou have the courage to admit falsifying of information.
Brgds
Cdr R W Pathak I.N.(Retd)
Cdr Ravindra Waman Pathak I.N.(Retd)(Mobile 919822329340
Saturday, September 12, 2009
Mail from Orissa...Veteran harish Panda
From: Harish Panda
Subject: thanks you sir
To: jagi_medi@hotmail.com, hrwntsingh@yahoo.co.in
Date: Thursday, 10 September, 2009, 6:25 PM
sir,
I am harish ch.panda ,ex-sm (ex-sigman) from a remotest & rural district Balangir ,ORISSA. We have make a district level association of ex-sm (member registered 185) .
sir, I came to know your mail address from internet & request to send us all recent information /changing in our Defence pensioner caders.
I expect to listen something from you.
--
harish panda.
Subject: thanks you sir
To: jagi_medi@hotmail.com, hrwntsingh@yahoo.co.in
Date: Thursday, 10 September, 2009, 6:25 PM
sir,
I am harish ch.panda ,ex-sm (ex-sigman) from a remotest & rural district Balangir ,ORISSA. We have make a district level association of ex-sm (member registered 185) .
sir, I came to know your mail address from internet & request to send us all recent information /changing in our Defence pensioner caders.
I expect to listen something from you.
--
harish panda.
Friday, September 11, 2009
IESM Members From Doon Valley and also sending Medals for 13 Sep 09
Brij Thapa
to"Brig RS Rawat, VSM"
dateThu, Sep 10, 2009 at 6:51 PM
subjectIESM Members From Doon Valley and also sending Medals for 13 Sep 09
Dear Brig Rajender,
Cordial Regards.
I had met you in many occasions like during DESL silver Jubilee when honoured the gallantry awardees including Col Rawat (Father) by the Governor and recently I also handed over Telephone Directory 2009 for Defence Personnel to you in UESL/DESL office. Hope you will be to recollect now.
I am indeed proud of you for sending your contribution, donation & medals to IESM which we did long back but sad to say that our State Uttarakhand having full of Faujees with many high ranking officers hardly few have come forward for IESM. We had always full support of Admiral Arun Prakash, Lt Gen M S Gosain, Lt gen G S Negi,Maj Gen Sabharwal, Lt Gen K K Khanna, Maj Gen Chander Nandwani, Brig K G Behl, Col Ganga Singh ,Col T S Payal and many others when IESM displayed excellent dedicated activities against anomalies of 6 CPC in the country during last year hunger strike, subsequently during rally fast at Jantra Mantra also during this year due to which Govt was shaken up to issue so many amendmends on 6CPC letter of 11.11.08. Now also war of IESM is on for OROP or ranked based pension with many more other fruitful activities for welfare of veterans and their families.
Kindly help us in motivating other Uttarakhandees to come forward and volunteer for IESM as this is the only organisation today which is capable of fighting with concern authorities to achieve the desired Mission and to seek justice for the defence services including veterans. Due to exigencies of service I am here in Singapore, I extend my apologies sir.
Brij
to"Brig RS Rawat, VSM"
dateThu, Sep 10, 2009 at 6:51 PM
subjectIESM Members From Doon Valley and also sending Medals for 13 Sep 09
Dear Brig Rajender,
Cordial Regards.
I had met you in many occasions like during DESL silver Jubilee when honoured the gallantry awardees including Col Rawat (Father) by the Governor and recently I also handed over Telephone Directory 2009 for Defence Personnel to you in UESL/DESL office. Hope you will be to recollect now.
I am indeed proud of you for sending your contribution, donation & medals to IESM which we did long back but sad to say that our State Uttarakhand having full of Faujees with many high ranking officers hardly few have come forward for IESM. We had always full support of Admiral Arun Prakash, Lt Gen M S Gosain, Lt gen G S Negi,Maj Gen Sabharwal, Lt Gen K K Khanna, Maj Gen Chander Nandwani, Brig K G Behl, Col Ganga Singh ,Col T S Payal and many others when IESM displayed excellent dedicated activities against anomalies of 6 CPC in the country during last year hunger strike, subsequently during rally fast at Jantra Mantra also during this year due to which Govt was shaken up to issue so many amendmends on 6CPC letter of 11.11.08. Now also war of IESM is on for OROP or ranked based pension with many more other fruitful activities for welfare of veterans and their families.
Kindly help us in motivating other Uttarakhandees to come forward and volunteer for IESM as this is the only organisation today which is capable of fighting with concern authorities to achieve the desired Mission and to seek justice for the defence services including veterans. Due to exigencies of service I am here in Singapore, I extend my apologies sir.
Brij
Wednesday, September 9, 2009
A NEW THOUGHT AND LOGIC ON OROP
From: ramantn sarma colram40@yahoo.com
To: DELETED
Sent: Tuesday, 8 September, 2009 4:45:05 AM
A NEW THOUGHT AND LOGIC ON OROP -
Dear Veterans,
A new thought on OROP, projected by Maj Gen VK Singh is worthy of consideration, by the Armed Forces & the Govt, for the new crop of retirees, post 2006. Our Movement started with the sole aim of protecting the interest of more than 2.5 Million Veterans, who are pre 2006 retirees, who cannot be offered any lateral absorption or promised employment up to the age of 60 years. For them OROP is the best bet, since they have already retired. That also as per the existing definition of equal rank, equal length of service & equal pension.
Pre 1970 Military Personnel were pensioned off based on their Substantive Ranks. There was no worth while compensation for their truncated service. This meagre payment of gratuity was also based on the length of Service physically rendered by them without taking into account the truncated portion of their balance of service. Because the 60 years of age concept for retirement was not there. Further, their pension was rank based & not the length of service, which the author claims the real OROP.
The length of service clause was specifically introduced to ensure a degree of compensation to the loyal military personnel, by the third CPC.From 1970 onwards, the pension for the Armed Forces Personnel have been fixed based on the criteria of Rank cum Length of Service. Three generations have gone through this system & have benefited. To suggest that we should roll back to the 1970 era & discard the Length of Service criteria is like shooting at our own foot.
Notional fixation ordered by the Court in the case of Maj Gens, is a new concept. But no where, any Court has over ruled the concept of OROP. The Court pointed out of creating Class within Class of pensioners when for a group of retirees their pensions were fixed based on the average emoluments of ten months & for others it was worked out on the basis of 36 months. The court had also come down heavily on the petitioners, when they mis- interpreted the earlier ruling given to mean the grant of OROP.
The idea given by the author, as pointed out by me, in the beginning itself, may be explored for those who are in service today & likely to retire 10 years hence.
Veteran Raman
---------
To: DELETED
Sent: Tuesday, 8 September, 2009 4:45:05 AM
A NEW THOUGHT AND LOGIC ON OROP -
Dear Veterans,
A new thought on OROP, projected by Maj Gen VK Singh is worthy of consideration, by the Armed Forces & the Govt, for the new crop of retirees, post 2006. Our Movement started with the sole aim of protecting the interest of more than 2.5 Million Veterans, who are pre 2006 retirees, who cannot be offered any lateral absorption or promised employment up to the age of 60 years. For them OROP is the best bet, since they have already retired. That also as per the existing definition of equal rank, equal length of service & equal pension.
Pre 1970 Military Personnel were pensioned off based on their Substantive Ranks. There was no worth while compensation for their truncated service. This meagre payment of gratuity was also based on the length of Service physically rendered by them without taking into account the truncated portion of their balance of service. Because the 60 years of age concept for retirement was not there. Further, their pension was rank based & not the length of service, which the author claims the real OROP.
The length of service clause was specifically introduced to ensure a degree of compensation to the loyal military personnel, by the third CPC.From 1970 onwards, the pension for the Armed Forces Personnel have been fixed based on the criteria of Rank cum Length of Service. Three generations have gone through this system & have benefited. To suggest that we should roll back to the 1970 era & discard the Length of Service criteria is like shooting at our own foot.
Notional fixation ordered by the Court in the case of Maj Gens, is a new concept. But no where, any Court has over ruled the concept of OROP. The Court pointed out of creating Class within Class of pensioners when for a group of retirees their pensions were fixed based on the average emoluments of ten months & for others it was worked out on the basis of 36 months. The court had also come down heavily on the petitioners, when they mis- interpreted the earlier ruling given to mean the grant of OROP.
The idea given by the author, as pointed out by me, in the beginning itself, may be explored for those who are in service today & likely to retire 10 years hence.
Veteran Raman
---------
Tuesday, September 8, 2009
OROP: Legal angle lightened up by Lt Col MG Kapoor
OROP: Legal angle lightened up
Date: Sunday, 6 September, 2009, 2:03 PM
My Dear VK,
I have gone through your write up on 'OROP'. It made an interesting reading. But permit me to say that your conclusions from the Apex Court judgments are not correct.
Firstly, the question before the Constitunal Bench of the Apex Court in Nakra's case was not that of 'OROP'.The question was whether it was proper to lay down a cut-off date and say that the liberalised pension formula for a retired Goverment employee would be applicable only to those who retired after the cut-off date and and not to those retired prior to the cut off date. The Apex Court replied in the negative. Earlier, the pension was worked out on the bases of the average pay drawn by a Govt empolyee in the last 36 months of service. The liberalised formula reduced the period from last 36 months to last 10 months of service but laid down that this would be applicable only to those retired after the cut-off date. The Apex Court directed the Govt to make it applicable to all Govt employees irrespective of their date of retirement. The famous quote from the said judgment was "Govt cannot pick up a date from the hat to say those retiring after the date would get the benefit and those retiring before it won't".
The last statement from the Apex Court judgment was misunderstood by many, including IESL (Indian Ex-Servicemen League) and they thought the judgement propagated 'OROP'. It did not. IESL on such misconception moved the Apex Court and instead of building up its case with regard to 'OROP' on its own merit, sought directions to the Government for 'OROP' on the basis of Nakra's judgment.
Another Constitutional Bench of five judges deciding IESL case (judgment by JS Verma CJI) then threadbare analysed Nakra's judgment and concluded that Nakra's judgment did not lay down such proposition and dismissed IESL writ petition.
In the latest case of Major Generals decided by two judges (Vains case) the question before the Apex Court was whether it was rational that pension of a Major General retiring before 1.1.1996 (i.e. even on 31.12.1995) is lower than that of a Brigadier retiring on or after 1.1.1996. Taking cue from and Nakra's judgment "Govt cannot pick up a date from the hat to say those retiring after the date would get the benefit and those retiring before it won't" and relyning upon the said judgment, the two-judges Bench decided it was not rational that the pension of a Major General retiring before 1.1.1996 (i.e. even on 31.12.1995) is lower than that of a Brigadier retiring on or after 1.1.1996. The Court (two judges) then directed the Govt to fix the pensions of all Major Generals who retired before 1.1.1996 at par with the pension of similar officers who retired on or after 1.1.1996.
This too does not lay down OROP proposition. In any case, IESL case decided by five-judges Constitutional Bench was not referred to the two-judges Bench in Vains case (Major General's case). Two-judges Bench naturally cannot decide against what a five-judges Constitutional Bench has held.
In this context your quoting a part only of the judgment and analysing the complete law on the subject is not correct. You thus have quoted the following out of context:
"This also contrary to the judgment of the Constitution Bench of the Supreme Court of 17 December 1982 that stated: “by introducing an arbitrary eligibility, being in service and retiring subsequent to the specified date, or being eligible for the regularised pension scheme and thereby dividing a homogeneous class, these classifications being not based on any discernible rational principle ... are unconstitutional and are struck down."
In my view the whole subject calls for a 'Review' by the Apex Court by a seven-judges Constitutional Bench.
With best wishes,
MG
(Lt Col MG Kapoor, Practising Law in Delhi High
Date: Sunday, 6 September, 2009, 2:03 PM
My Dear VK,
I have gone through your write up on 'OROP'. It made an interesting reading. But permit me to say that your conclusions from the Apex Court judgments are not correct.
Firstly, the question before the Constitunal Bench of the Apex Court in Nakra's case was not that of 'OROP'.The question was whether it was proper to lay down a cut-off date and say that the liberalised pension formula for a retired Goverment employee would be applicable only to those who retired after the cut-off date and and not to those retired prior to the cut off date. The Apex Court replied in the negative. Earlier, the pension was worked out on the bases of the average pay drawn by a Govt empolyee in the last 36 months of service. The liberalised formula reduced the period from last 36 months to last 10 months of service but laid down that this would be applicable only to those retired after the cut-off date. The Apex Court directed the Govt to make it applicable to all Govt employees irrespective of their date of retirement. The famous quote from the said judgment was "Govt cannot pick up a date from the hat to say those retiring after the date would get the benefit and those retiring before it won't".
The last statement from the Apex Court judgment was misunderstood by many, including IESL (Indian Ex-Servicemen League) and they thought the judgement propagated 'OROP'. It did not. IESL on such misconception moved the Apex Court and instead of building up its case with regard to 'OROP' on its own merit, sought directions to the Government for 'OROP' on the basis of Nakra's judgment.
Another Constitutional Bench of five judges deciding IESL case (judgment by JS Verma CJI) then threadbare analysed Nakra's judgment and concluded that Nakra's judgment did not lay down such proposition and dismissed IESL writ petition.
In the latest case of Major Generals decided by two judges (Vains case) the question before the Apex Court was whether it was rational that pension of a Major General retiring before 1.1.1996 (i.e. even on 31.12.1995) is lower than that of a Brigadier retiring on or after 1.1.1996. Taking cue from and Nakra's judgment "Govt cannot pick up a date from the hat to say those retiring after the date would get the benefit and those retiring before it won't" and relyning upon the said judgment, the two-judges Bench decided it was not rational that the pension of a Major General retiring before 1.1.1996 (i.e. even on 31.12.1995) is lower than that of a Brigadier retiring on or after 1.1.1996. The Court (two judges) then directed the Govt to fix the pensions of all Major Generals who retired before 1.1.1996 at par with the pension of similar officers who retired on or after 1.1.1996.
This too does not lay down OROP proposition. In any case, IESL case decided by five-judges Constitutional Bench was not referred to the two-judges Bench in Vains case (Major General's case). Two-judges Bench naturally cannot decide against what a five-judges Constitutional Bench has held.
In this context your quoting a part only of the judgment and analysing the complete law on the subject is not correct. You thus have quoted the following out of context:
"This also contrary to the judgment of the Constitution Bench of the Supreme Court of 17 December 1982 that stated: “by introducing an arbitrary eligibility, being in service and retiring subsequent to the specified date, or being eligible for the regularised pension scheme and thereby dividing a homogeneous class, these classifications being not based on any discernible rational principle ... are unconstitutional and are struck down."
In my view the whole subject calls for a 'Review' by the Apex Court by a seven-judges Constitutional Bench.
With best wishes,
MG
(Lt Col MG Kapoor, Practising Law in Delhi High
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