From: Charan Singh charansingh31@yahoo.co.in
Subject: LT GENs
To: "REPORT MY SIGNAL(CS Kamboj)"
Date: Sunday, 26 April, 2009, 10:28 AM
Dear Csk
A news item in Tribune of 26/04/09 on page 2 says "only 33 pc Lt gens to get HAG-plus status. If is so then the pay hike report for lt gens would amount a big joke on this rank . Army HQ hould accept no such coditiions .
Quite a few offrs have been promoted to this rank following A V Singh (?)Commttee recommendations . What is the use of such promotions or even rank if the promotees have to be treated like this ??
Brig Charan Singh (Retd)
......
Only 33 pc Lt Gens to get HAG-plus status
Ajay Banerjee
Tribune News Service
New Delhi, April 25
Last night’s orders of the Ministry of Defence with regards to placing a select-few of senior most officers of the armed forces in a higher pay bracket than others, has left the forces baffled. It now poses a challenge to devise a formula that will identify the posts on which more salary can be given.
Last night, the ministry, in its notification said only 33 per cent of the Lieut Generals and their parallel ranks of Air Marshall and the Vice Admiral in the IAF and the Navy, respectively, will get the enhanced Higher Administrative Grade (HAG)-plus status.
The number of the officers getting the enhanced grade is not “substantial” as some sections of the media had reported in the past, said a well-placed official.
Already the Vice chiefs of the services and officers at the GoC-in-C-level have been placed in the “apex” grade that is at a par with a secretary to government of India. Excluding them, there are about 62-64 serving Lieut Generals, 14-15 Air Marshalls and another 13-14 Vice Admirals. The letter implies only about 35-odd officers across the three services will get the new HAG-plus grade and the others will not get it.
There are two options to identify who gets it. One is to earmark posts and the officer gets the enhanced pay only if he is working on that post. The other is to give it as per seniority hence giving it only to 33 per cent.
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SCPC: Twenty seven Lt Gens in Higher Administrative Group
Dear Navdeep and Friends,
The orders have, indeed been issued, but there is a rider. Only 33% Lt Gens will be on HAG+. Upgradation will be based on seniority. This will create more problems than any which it might resolve. We have created a system which is akin to landing up in a quagmire!
Regards,
Maj Gen Surjit Singh (Retd)
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From: Maulibhushan Ghosh
Subject: HAG Plus?
To:
Date: Saturday, 25 April, 2009, 4:49 PM
What do you make of these reports?
After Lt Cols, govt approves higher pay for Lt Gens
Three days after implementing higher pay for Lt Cols, the government on Friday night approved of higher wages for lieutenant generals under the Sixth Pay Commission putting them at par with director generals of police, a key demand of the armed forces.
The defence ministry conveyed the government's decision to the Armed Forces headquarters in a letter which comes nearly seven months after the union cabinet approved the Sixth Pay Commission implementation in August last year, sources in the services' headquarters told PTI here.
Nearly 50 three-star officers, who are Lt Gens in the Army, Air Marshals in the IAF and Vice Admirals in the Navy, would benefit from the government move to place them in the Higher Administrative Grade (HAG) Plus scales.
About 33 per cent of the total number of Lt Gen-rank officers would be receiving the new pay scales at par with the DGPs of state police and central paramilitary forces.
There are approximately about 150 Lt Gen-rank officers in the three services. Among them, the Army, Navy and Air Force Commanders, who are chiefs of the Service's Commands, and vice chiefs of the respective forces are already in a special category of pay scales equivalent to secretaries in the civilian services. The HAG Plus scales would be for Lt Gens who are not Commanders or Vice Chiefs.
"The armed forces are extremely happy with the government's decision to accord the HAG Plus pay scales to Lt Gens. With this, the government has restored the three-star rank officers' their status. This will surely help in resolving the seniority issue in areas where officers from the armed forces and the civilian services work jointly," a senior armed forces officer said.
By accepting this demand, the government has resolved three of the four "core issues" raised by the armed forces with Defence Minister A.K. Antony and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh soon after the government approved the Sixth Pay Commission recommendations last year.
Other issues already solved to the satisfaction of the Services included according Pay Band-4 scales to 15,000-odd Lieutenant Colonel-rank officers, who form the backbone of the armed forces' fighting units and restoring 70 per cent weightage in pensionary benefits for the over a million-strong jawans.
While the government has already notified the amended pay order in the case of Lt Cols, the notifications for the Lt Gens and the jawans are yet to come, sources said.
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From: guru bakshi
To: Maulibhushan Ghosh
Cc: Maj Navdeep Singh ; Brig Chander S Kamboj ; rajkadyan@yahoo.com
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: HAG Plus?
Dear Mauli,
I deeply regret to say that the dispensation regarding grant of HAG+ status to the Lt Gens & equivalents in the three services, as presently announced by the Govt is, very unfortunately, another insidiuous and humiliating hit on the Defence Services, by the present Ruling Clique. The manner in which the Media has carried the news is exceedingly misleading, to say the least.
What we need to understand & appreciate is that the essence of what the three Defence Services Chiefs sought in respect of the Lt Gens & their Equivalents was "TOTAL PARITY In STATUS" with the DGPs in Police & Para Military from the "Day of the Promotion to the Rank ( Lt Gen & Equivalents ) to the Day of their Retirement ". As against this, let us consider what kind of, very cleverly, a very Moth Eaten & Insignificant, dispensation they have given out to the Defence Services and yet expect that, in our utter naivety, WITHOUT REALISING ITS IMPORT, we all will rejoice.
The hidden significance of extending this status to only 33% of the cadre of Lt Gens & Equivalents, which appears to have escaped the notice of most people including the Media, is as under :-
a. Since the Defence Services would never do anything which tends to 'discriminate' and create a ' Class within a Class', there is every liklihood that they would prefer pass on this benefit to all in the cadre Based on their SENIORITY without any distinction as to which Arm or Service or Discipline the Officer represents.
b. Based on the above premise, the HAG+ status would come to most incumbents only a couple of years after their promotion which has the following implications :-
i. Anyone posted as Corps Cdr on promotion would continue to be "Lower in Status vis a vis a DGP", leading to functional problems earlier envisaged.
ii. After a couple years of promotion to Lt Gen, in any case, the salary level would have already reached or may be even crossed the level of salary due under HAG+.
c. The past Lt Gens & Equivalents will not be entitled to any benefit under HAG+ when all the past DGPs of Police & Para Military Forces have already been given this benefit.
Does one need any greater clarity & understanding of the kind of ' game' played with us ? Is their any case at all for any of us to gloat over what has come about after a lapse of almost eight months of the Chiefs taking up the issue with the Govt?
Regards
Guru Bakshi
( Lt Gen G L Bakshi, pvsm
6, Sector 37, Arun Vihar, NOIDA )
9810053365
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From: Navdeep Singh navdeepsingh.india@gmail.com
Subject: Re: HAG Plus?
To: "guru bakshi" guru_bakshi@yahoo.com , "Maulibhushan Ghosh" mbghosh@gmail.com
Cc: "Brig Chander S Kamboj" kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in , rajkadyan@yahoo.com
Date: Sunday, 26 April, 2009, 11:15 AM
Sir,
While I totally agree with points (a) to (c) and the practical problems that they pose, there is more to the 33% figure that meets the eye, in the positive sense - But not for public domain of course. :-)
Firstly, all Lt Generals could not have been upgraded to HAG+. In every Govt service / cadre where HAG+ exists, it is a promotional appointment from the regular HAG, hence if HAG+ was to be granted to the military, it had to be an upgradation from HAG on which, according to service rules for every service, an officer has to spend a minimum of 1 yr before being placed in HAG+. A spl dispensation of moving directly from SAG to HAG+ is not possible and is not in practice.
Secondly, while the figure of 33% would, to an untrained eye, seem that only 33% offrs shall stand to gain, it is not so in the actual sense. It merely means that at any one given point of time, only 33% of Lt Gens shall be in HAG+ which means that in the chain of seniority, as people on the top retire (excluding Army Cdrs), the offrs down the chain shall be upgraded to HAG+ practically meaning that most of the Lt Gens (almost 90%) in service now shall retire in HAG+ while in the future the % is bound to go up barring a few freak cases.
Thirdly, now that the orders have been issued, the percentage in the forces attaining this grade is much higher than many other cadres and the best part is that the offrs in HAG+ would be equated with Spl Secys to Govt of India and not Addl Secys to Govt of India as is the case of HAG Lt Generals currently.
Fourthly, the Service HQrs are now actively working on most of your very valid points and the thought process of placing all retired Lt Gens in this grade is already in motion but let's see what happens.
A good start and I'm sure we'll be able to improve upon it.
Sorry to take your time,
Warm Regards
Navdeep
...............
----- Original Message -----
From: guru bakshi
To: Navdeep Singh
Cc: Brig Chander S Kamboj ; rajkadyan@yahoo.com ; mbghosh@gmail.com ; Lt Gen KM Seth
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: HAG Plus?
Dear Navdeep,
I am gratefull to you for your prompt response as also do appreciate the illucidatory clarifications shared by you on the issue. However, I am still not able to understand that when, post 5th Pay Commission, barring one DGP per State, all the other DGPs were equated with Lt Gens, how come that the Govt has now been able to move 100 % of the DGPs into the new HAG+ Scale. This has resulted in every retired DGP,irrespective of how long back he retired & what kind of 'job' he retired from, now getting pension at a much higher level ( 50% of the minimum of the HAG+ Scale ) than the past Lt Gens.
Kindly do advise if, factually, my thought process is faulted.
I would also like to emphasise that, as you would be well aware, in the Army almost all the Corps Cdrs hold the same as' first appointment ' on promotion to Lt Gen in order that they are, timely, available for promotion as Army Cdr. In this context, someone from J&K mentioned to me that at Srinagar earlier the DGP used to attend the Corps Cdr's coordinating conference which he stopped doing after the DGPs wre moved to HAG+ Scale. Regrettably, this situation would continue under the present dispensation
Warm Regards
Guru Bakshi
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From: Navdeep Singh navdeepsingh.india@gmail.com
Subject: Re: HAG Plus?
To: "guru bakshi" guru_bakshi@yahoo.com
Cc: "Brig Chander S Kamboj" kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in , rajkadyan@yahoo.com , mbghosh@gmail.com, "Lt Gen KM Seth" krishseth@hotmail.com
Date: Sunday, 26 April, 2009, 8:31 PM
Sir,
That is because in the IPS, they have a rank known as the Addl DGP who wears the same rank badges as the DGP but is in the HAG and not the HAG+. Hence in the IPS, they have three offrs wearing the same badges carrying the same stars :
ADGP : HAG
DGP : HAG+
DGP (one cadre post) / DGP CPO : Apex Scale
Most of the IPS offrs retire as Addl DsGP and if posted to the centre, as IsGP. The pension of an Addl DGP who retired prior to 01 Jan 06 is Rs 24700 which is < the pension of a pre-06 retired Lt Col (25700) and a Col (26050).
Similarly, now in the Military, we have three grades within the same rank :
Lt Gen : HAG
Lt Gen (By seniority) : HAG+
Lt Gen (Army Cdr/Corps Commander with lack of residual service to be placed as Army Cdr) : Apex Scale
Now coming to 5th CPC. It was never like that. All DsGP were in a higher grade than a Lt Gen post 5th CPC. This was the hierarchy post 5th CPC :
Addl DGP / Lt Gen : 22500-24500
DGP : 24500-26000
Lt Gen (Army Cdr) : 26000 fixed
The placement of Lt Gens in HAG+, has, hence rectified the anomaly created post-creation of the ADGP rank. It was during 4th CPC that a Lt Gen was equated with a DGP.
All said and done, the military rank has in fact taken a beating vis-a-vis the police.
In 1937, the highest police rk in a state was equated with a Col
In 1947, with a Brig
In 1973 with a Maj Gen
In 1986 with a Lt Gen
In 2006 with a Vice Chief of the Army Staff.
We'll counter these problems one by one, rest assured Sir.
HAG+ is a good beginning.
Warm Regards
navdeep
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From: guru bakshi guru_bakshi@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: HAG Plus?
To: "Navdeep Singh" navdeepsingh.india@gmail.com
Cc: "Brig Chander S Kamboj" kamboj_cs@yahoo.co.in , rajkadyan@yahoo.com , mbghosh@gmail.com, "Lt Gen KM Seth" krishseth@hotmail.com
Date: Monday, 27 April, 2009, 7:16 AM
Dear Navdeep,
Thank you very much for putting me wise on the issue. I deeply appreciate the trouble & pains taken by you to help me understand the issue in the correct perspective.
I would also like to take this opportunity to compliment you as also express my deep appreciation & gratitude to you, in my personal capacity, for the kind of praiseworthy service & support you are providing to the Services Community.
Warm Regards
Guru Bakshi
